52 : Why Some Women Leave Catholicism - And How to Guide Them Back with Lisa Brenninkmeyer

Speaker: 00:00:06

Hey, I am your host, Mari Wagner,

and you're listening to The Ever Be

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Podcast where Faith Meets Lifestyle.

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I'm so excited you're here.

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Whether you're a new listener

or a longtime follower, I know

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there's something here for you.

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Pull up a chair and listen in for

insightful, real life conversations and

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actionable steps on how to claim the.

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Full life God created you for.

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If you're a woman desiring to live

a Christ-centered life in today's

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modern world, then this is for you.

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Welcome to ever be.

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squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

Welcome back to ever be

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everybody in this episode.

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We are going to be exploring how we as

Catholic women, um, can lovingly reach

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out to others who maybe have Left the

Catholic church, maybe who have tasted

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a little bit of what it has to offer,

but ultimately decided maybe it wasn't

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for them and they have stepped away.

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So, um, we know that faith, you know,

faith journeys are deeply personal and

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there's many reasons why somebody might

feel disconnected from Catholicism.

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Somebody might walk away or be hurt.

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Um, but the question is, how do we, as

practicing Catholics respond to that?

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How can we walk alongside

these women in love?

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How can we reflect Christ in our own

lives and just gently invite them

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back into the fullness of faith.

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So today I'm joined by a very

special guest, Lisa Brenink Meyer.

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She's the founder of Walking

With Purpose, and she has a

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wealth of insight on this topic.

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So I will let her introduce

more of herself now, but please

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Lisa, welcome to ever be.

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lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

All right.

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It's so great to be here.

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I really look forward to this

conversation and just love you

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and the work that you're doing and

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squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

Thank you.

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lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

all.

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And so, yeah, this is going to be a fun

conversation and it's something have

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really always been super passionate about.

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And I think even the beginning of

walking with purpose, which is now,

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um, Yeah, where I would guess word on

the street would be that we're known

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as being a Catholic women's Bible

study and Bible study would be really

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the big thing we're leading with.

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I think it's a great landing place

for a lot of people who already are

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really committed to their faith and

they want to grow further, maybe

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have felt like, Oh, the Bible.

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I know I'm supposed to be reading it.

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I don't know where to begin.

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Um, at the beginning, it was very,

very much created for women who are

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having trouble finding their place in

the church, who are feeling actually

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quite disengaged and disconnected.

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And right at the beginning, when I was

seeing that happen, I was watching women

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leave or watching women stay with all

their little kids at mass, but I could

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just see on their faces and then hearing

conversations like, I'm doing this.

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I'm supposed to be doing this, but

I'm not getting a lot out of it.

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And just seeing so much disconnection,

walking with purpose started not

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by like turning to priests or,

or the church and saying, can you

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please fix this problem, which I'm

witnessing happening among my friends.

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Um, I went to the women who had left.

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And I said to them, what are the questions

that you had that were not being answered

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or what were the needs that you had in

your heart that weren't being addressed?

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And so you went looking for something

else, because I think for all of

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us, Mari, like when we get into this

subject, we make a little bit of an

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effort here, um, and as long as we

haven't so gotten into a holy huddle,

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I really pray we haven't, that we don't

actually know and love anyone who isn't

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in this category, say that with like

quotes where they, you know, aren't,

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aren't interested, we're going to, these

are, these are people that like are

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thoughtful, intentional, deep people.

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It's not just like, I'm going

down to the Protestant church

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because their music is better.

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And then we're just like, Oh

my gosh, you're so shallow.

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How could you walk away

from the Eucharist?

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And these are thoughtful people

and their questions good.

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squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

Yeah.

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lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

in which they were saying this

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part of my life and heart is

not being ministered to here.

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They were, they were really good points.

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And so walking with purpose was

built to answer those questions,

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was built to meet those needs.

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so, has never not been

a super big deal to me.

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squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

Yeah.

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Well, you are definitely the

perfect person to bring on the

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podcast to talk about this.

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And I'm really excited to dive in.

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So let's just get right into it.

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Um, if you just want to start out by

sharing, what do you think are some of

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these most common reasons that women

initially connect with Catholicism?

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What might cause them later

to feel led to step away?

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lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

All right.

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Good question.

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Maria.

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Okay I think when I think about initially

connecting for most people, um, when your

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background is, is Catholicism, it's, it's

just been the family expectation, right?

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It's been, this is, this

is how we do things.

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We get up on Sundays, we all go.

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Um, if you went to grew up, if someone

grew up going to Catholic school,

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it then not only becomes just a

part of the fabric of your society.

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schedule.

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It's also even woven into

your experience of friendship.

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You and your friends go to mass.

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Why?

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Because there's a school mass like

there are things that that aren't weird.

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They're just a part of your life.

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And um, I think for a lot of us, we

just kept going with it because it's

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what people around us wanted us to do.

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And it was fine.

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It wasn't harmful.

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Um, and then for For a segment of

people, they also encountered Christ

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personally during that time, you know,

maybe it was at, you know, Steubenville

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conference or, and it really great

experience of life, you know, just youth

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minister who really made things relevant.

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Certainly there are plenty examples

of people who have encountered

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and who have encountered Jesus.

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And, and through that, that's

why they engaged, right.

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But for a lot of people, I

don't think it was something

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necessarily that was a personal.

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Transformative encounter.

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And then you see the consequences of

that with people walking away when

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it is no longer a part of the fabric

of your life, when suddenly, um,

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most of your friends aren't going.

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And in fact, they're like

going, we're in college.

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Like, what are you doing?

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Like, why are you working your schedule

around something so weird on a Sunday?

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And we all want to go to this music

festival and it's all day or all weekend.

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suddenly it becomes this decision

of, okay, I can either do this good

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thing or I can do this good thing.

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And there are two good things.

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And all my friends are doing this and

if I don't do it, I'm actually weird

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and maybe not being a part of the group.

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And so we start making, I think these

decisions that seem really small at

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the time, like, yeah, I'm going to

go to the weekend music festival.

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Okay.

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Big deal.

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Like, does that mean I don't love God?

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No, it just means I want to go with

my friends, but bit by bit by bit,

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it no longer is a part of a habit.

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And, um, and I think that for people for

whom going to church, being in whatever

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degree of relationship with God they were.

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When that gave a feeling of peace growing

up and it felt good and gave structure,

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then it was great to have in life.

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But it's like, well, that

works until it doesn't.

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When you get to a point where you're

like, well, this isn't giving me peace.

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It's actually giving me conflict

with my friends or with my boyfriend.

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You know, when you start to not feel its

relevance in your day to day life, except

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in terms of the things that it says that

I can't do, like all of a sudden, okay,

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I can't have sex with my boyfriend.

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Um, I can't get married on the beach.

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I, you know, I can't use birth control.

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It's like, okay, you know what?

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This, no longer, it's messing

with my life, you know?

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And it's like, I liked it

before cause it actually gave

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me peace and made me feel good.

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And this is so the opposite.

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This is not bringing peace.

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This is actually bringing conflict

into some of my relationships.

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it's like, well, what's going to give, and

we are so hardwired for a relationship.

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We pick the people,

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squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454: Hmm.

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lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

the people that are in

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front of us, you know?

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squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

Yeah.

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lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

don't know.

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Those are just some of my thoughts.

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squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

Yeah.

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And I love what you said there.

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We're hardwired for relationship.

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And so we often pick the people.

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And I think that what comes to mind

right now is like, well, like what you

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said, if you've had a deep encounter

with Christ, it's likely you have.

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More of a strong relationship

with Christ than if you don't.

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And depending on, you know, for

whatever time you were in the

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church and you were feeding that

relationship, the stronger it got.

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And so that builds up that muscle in, in

the face of the world, you know, to be

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able to choose the relationship of Jesus.

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And.

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If you don't have that buildup, right,

if it's just been a check the box or

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do it because my family used to go,

you know, or because it made me feel

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good, but if there's no real rooted

relationship with Christ, then yeah, it

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makes sense why it would be easier to

choose the relationships in front of you

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instead of the relationship with Jesus.

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lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

Well said.

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squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

I think a lot of times too, there

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are misconceptions, um, of the

Catholic church and I, I'm totally

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going to butcher this quote.

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I think it was Fulton Sheen or something,

but it was like, nobody hates the Catholic

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church For what it is you just hate the

catholic church for what you think it is

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or something like that, you know and if

you were to truly Study what the church

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teaches learn what the church teaches

and the reasons behind everything If you

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actually did that like then you fall in

love with the faith and then you find

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out the wisdom of the church the beauty

of the church Um, but I know that there

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are a lot of misconceptions or maybe

even A true negative experience that have

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happened, um, that contribute to feeling

disconnected, um, or disillusioned, um,

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with the church or with their faith.

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So how do you feel like we can better

address these challenges, um, maybe

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both as individuals and maybe even

as the broader Catholic community?

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lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

Yeah, you bring up such a good point,

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Mari, and I think that the misconceptions

can be misconceptions of what the

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church teaches and, um, Yeah, I'm just

being truly misinformed, but it can

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just be a misunderstanding of what

love and freedom are, you know where

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what you define as what is love and

what you define is what is freedom is

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something that Is so different from

the way that the church defines it.

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So it's almost like we're trying to enter

into a dialogue and we've got different

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definitions for the keywords we're using.

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And so we just over ourselves.

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Yeah, we miss, we miss

each other completely.

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And so I think probably the most damaging

misconception is around the word love.

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And what is love?

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I think that a lot of people, and

in a lot of dialogues I have with,

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with young adults, first thing they

say about the Catholic Church is

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it's judgmental and it's not loving.

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And the people in it who are the

most faithful and practicing are

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judgmental and are not loving.

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And, and it's coming from,

uh, understanding of what love

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is, that's very different than

You know, our understanding.

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So I think, you know, the best

definition of it, um, for me is that

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love is willing to go to the other.

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And whenever you, you kind of start

a conversation and say, can we just

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like get on the same page in terms of

when I say love, this is what I mean.

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When I use this word and it's a

very, um, you can say that person,

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when you say love, what do you mean?

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I think this is so key when we enter into

dialogue, not to say, okay, well, um,

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I have the correct definition of love

and I'm going to tell you what it is.

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And now when we talk about it, let's

talk about it using my word, my way.

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But to first say, I

would lead with saying.

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you say love, like, what do you mean?

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Like, how would you define it?

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And then you can say, okay, when

I say love, I'm talking about

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willing to go to the other.

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Okay.

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When you were starting

from that framework,

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all of the church's rules.

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Sound very different.

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If they're coming from a place of love

is willing, the good of the other,

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there is concern that that behavior,

that thing would actually hurt you.

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That's where that's coming from.

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Like, but I would, I would wait a

very, very long time in dialogue

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with someone before I was even

talking about the regulations.

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And, I do think that that feeling

of, um, The church and people who

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are following Christ within the

Catholic Church are judgmental.

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You know what, Mari?

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I'd love to say that's a misconception,

but I actually think it's true.

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squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

Yeah,

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lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

And I think we've got some

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really serious work to do.

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I really do.

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Like this is maybe, um,

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this is maybe the thing that gets

me up most in the night in prayer

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that I don't think we realize.

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The degree to which there are some

really deep seated things in our hearts

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that are judgmental and they do come

out even if we think that we're being

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so careful the way that we say things.

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And I think right now in our current

political climate, um, I see a lot

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of people who aren't even trying to.

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To sound different.

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I think there's a boldness right

now that I see in the way people

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are speaking this sense of I'm

on the right side of this issue.

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I'm on the right side of the fence.

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Therefore, if I speak this

out, I'm speaking truth.

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This truth needs to be heard and I'm

just going to go with it, you know, and

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squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

regardless of how it affects

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the people on the other,

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lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

Yeah.

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And so I think that that it's not just a

misconception about about judgmentalism.

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squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

how do you.

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I feel like we can grow in that, like

maybe us as Catholic women, um, how can

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we sort of be aware of that and change

that, um, outlook or that the way that

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we approach people that are maybe new to

the church or falling away to the church?

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Because I think you're right.

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I think that like even practicing

Catholics, you know, like we can fall

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into being like, no, we're not judgmental.

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No, we're not judgmental.

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But I think like, sometimes you can get.

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so far into what you feel like is

the right way to live, you know,

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doing the things like the way the

church has called you to do it.

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And if you see someone

not doing it that way,

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lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

Transcription

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squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

like a, Ooh,

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lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

LLC.

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squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

like, Ooh, that's, that's not good.

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You know, like who knows, who knows

what's going on in their life.

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And so how do you feel like as women,

we can kind of like change that

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mindset, um, or just get out of that.

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Judgmentalism, you know, and

be more loving and more non

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judgmental and walk alongside these

women who have left the church.

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lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

Okay, I'm just going to shoot

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straight with you, Murray.

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I don't know.

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Like I,

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squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454: Yes.

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lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

I don't know your listeners.

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I really don't.

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I don't know.

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know where they're coming from.

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I don't know who they voted for.

293

: 00:14:20

I don't know how they come at any of this.

294

: 00:14:21

Like, I really don't.

295

: 00:14:22

I'm coming into this really cold.

296

: 00:14:23

Usually, I know a little bit more and I

can maybe adjust my words accordingly, but

297

: 00:14:29

I'm just going to shoot straight with you.

298

: 00:14:30

When I'm on social media

299

: 00:14:34

And I look at a Catholic influencers, what

I'm seeing a ton of not using necessarily

300

: 00:14:42

these words, although sometimes I see

these exact words is leading with a

301

: 00:14:47

message of, I am, I'm, I'm a conservative.

302

: 00:14:51

And what happens is other women, young

women who want to get this right,

303

: 00:14:55

like don't want to be believing the

wrong things or whatever fluctuating.

304

: 00:14:58

There's huge trends, um,

among young men as well.

305

: 00:15:02

And so there's just like a leading with.

306

: 00:15:05

The things that mark us in a certain way.

307

: 00:15:08

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454: Mm.

308

: 00:15:09

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

and then there's a sense

309

: 00:15:10

of instant belonging.

310

: 00:15:11

And I think not just instant belonging.

311

: 00:15:12

It's like, if I follow that person

and if she's telling me, you know,

312

: 00:15:17

not only her makeup routine, but,

um, also like just how she lives her

313

: 00:15:22

life, how she prioritizes her time,

um, how she sees things and of course

314

: 00:15:27

there's so much subliminal messaging

going on all the time about what, What

315

: 00:15:30

we believe on every dot and diddle.

316

: 00:15:33

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

Sure.

317

: 00:15:33

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

I can just lock in and live like her

318

: 00:15:35

and believe like her, like maybe I

can have her life, maybe I'll have

319

: 00:15:38

just safety and security and I won't

have that wholly wretched feeling of

320

: 00:15:42

needing to figure every dang thing out.

321

: 00:15:44

Not only what I'm doing with my life, but

also like what I think about everything.

322

: 00:15:48

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

Mm hmm.

323

: 00:15:49

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

um, And I just,

324

: 00:15:54

I don't know, like I'm looking at

my own kids who are young adults

325

: 00:15:56

and I, I gave my everything to

raising my kids in the faith.

326

: 00:16:01

I, um, you know, I write Bible studies.

327

: 00:16:03

I've written children's

curriculum for years.

328

: 00:16:05

Like I, this was, when I say

this, like everything I've

329

: 00:16:08

poured into walking with purpose.

330

: 00:16:10

I first poured that into my family.

331

: 00:16:12

They got, they got my best walking

with purpose gets my next best in the

332

: 00:16:16

sense of what I write, but my kids

got my best, so, you When I talk about

333

: 00:16:20

my kids and where they're at within

the church, I'm not talking about

334

: 00:16:24

kids who've always been disengaged.

335

: 00:16:25

These are kids who've had vibrant

relationships with the Lord, who have

336

: 00:16:29

been exposed to the best of what the

Catholic church offers all over the

337

: 00:16:32

country, if not all over the world.

338

: 00:16:33

Like we have done things internationally,

we've done things all over the U S.

339

: 00:16:38

and, So many of my kids cannot find a

home in the Catholic church right now

340

: 00:16:43

because it is just so, there's just this

super, um, like I do need to be careful

341

: 00:16:50

with my word here, but it's not that

there's not a sense of, of belonging and

342

: 00:16:55

of acceptance of where we're, it's like,

this is the mold that we need to fit into.

343

: 00:17:00

And it feels like a, like a

straight jacket to my kids.

344

: 00:17:03

And these are not kids that are

like, you know, They're just like,

345

: 00:17:07

you know, I just need normal people

346

: 00:17:09

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

Sure.

347

: 00:17:10

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

with it.

348

: 00:17:10

Or, you know, I don't know.

349

: 00:17:11

I don't know if any of that makes

any sense, but I just feel like, um,

350

: 00:17:15

the mix of the political into the

other does not, does not help us.

351

: 00:17:19

So

352

: 00:17:20

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454: Mm.

353

: 00:17:21

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

lead with, we can lead with these

354

: 00:17:23

are the things that I believe.

355

: 00:17:24

And, um, and I think a lot of

that gets into gender roles.

356

: 00:17:28

A lot of that gets into, you know, our

fascination with ballerina farm, like

357

: 00:17:33

all these, all these things, right.

358

: 00:17:35

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454: Yes.

359

: 00:17:36

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

lead with.

360

: 00:17:38

people actually most need, which

isn't so much clarity around,

361

: 00:17:43

should I be a stay at home?

362

: 00:17:44

Mom, should I be a working mom?

363

: 00:17:46

Should I have a large family?

364

: 00:17:47

Should I have something?

365

: 00:17:47

I mean, these are, these are,

these are much more personal

366

: 00:17:50

things that people are going to

work through with the Lord, right?

367

: 00:17:53

But if we were going really to the heart

of the matter, and I think that what

368

: 00:17:57

people desperately, desperately need

um, To know how absolutely great and

369

: 00:18:03

amazing it is to belong to God, to be

cherished by God, to be like, to be in

370

: 00:18:08

this unbelievably safe relationship that

gets untouched by any of my circumstances,

371

: 00:18:13

no matter my sorrow, no matter what,

you know, what comes through with my

372

: 00:18:18

personal dream and what does not, no

matter what gets thrown at me, like there

373

: 00:18:21

is a place of cherished belonging that

can give me this anchor through life.

374

: 00:18:27

You know, you were just, we were

just talking offline, you know,

375

: 00:18:29

before we started recording and you

were telling me what Father Mike

376

: 00:18:32

shared at Sikh that was so powerful.

377

: 00:18:34

And I'm not going to try and summarize it.

378

: 00:18:36

You can

379

: 00:18:37

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454: Yes.

380

: 00:18:37

Right.

381

: 00:18:37

Yes.

382

: 00:18:37

Yes.

383

: 00:18:37

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

real quick.

384

: 00:18:38

Cause it's going to make,

it's going to make my point.

385

: 00:18:40

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454: I

was going to say, I knew this was going to

386

: 00:18:42

lead into this conversation at some point.

387

: 00:18:44

So I'm glad you brought it up, but we

just, we just came back from seek and

388

: 00:18:47

father Mike had an amazing keynote.

389

: 00:18:49

And the thing that stood out to me

the most in his keynote, he gave

390

: 00:18:53

this analogy of a astronaut being

out in space and like getting out of

391

: 00:18:59

the ship and knowing that, like, you

Because it's a place of zero gravity.

392

: 00:19:02

Like you have to have, you have

to be tethered to something or

393

: 00:19:05

else you'll just float away.

394

: 00:19:06

And so he's holding onto the ship or

else he knows he's going to float away.

395

: 00:19:10

And no matter what the decision is,

whether it's a conscious decision

396

: 00:19:15

to let go of the ship and to float

away into nothingness, right.

397

: 00:19:19

And, and die.

398

: 00:19:21

Or if it's a accidental like slip, you

know, or just a casual thing that he

399

: 00:19:27

didn't realize was happening where he

let go, the result would be the same.

400

: 00:19:31

And he would drift into the nothingness

and he related it back into our faith

401

: 00:19:36

and how, no matter what our decision

is, whether it's a conscious decision

402

: 00:19:41

to let go of the ship, to let go of

the church, to let go of the Lord,

403

: 00:19:46

we'll float into nothingness and die.

404

: 00:19:48

Or whether it's.

405

: 00:19:51

It's something that

slowly starts happening.

406

: 00:19:53

It's something that we start drifting

away, you know, but eventually like our

407

: 00:19:57

fingers slip and we completely let go.

408

: 00:19:59

The result is also the same.

409

: 00:20:01

We begin to drift away into

the nothingness and die.

410

: 00:20:05

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

So it's such a powerful image.

411

: 00:20:09

And I think we can look at that

image and think, okay, that has

412

: 00:20:12

to, who is, what is the ship?

413

: 00:20:13

The ship is the church.

414

: 00:20:15

Um, I think it's more powerful when, in

a sense, the ship is, is God himself.

415

: 00:20:20

It's, it's the father, right?

416

: 00:20:21

It's the heart of a father who does

not want you drifting into nothingness

417

: 00:20:26

and wants that connection to him.

418

: 00:20:28

Right.

419

: 00:20:29

And, ultimately I think what

we all want is to be tethered.

420

: 00:20:35

To someone will love us regardless

of what we do and will give us this,

421

: 00:20:42

you know, this baseline, this anchor

of belonging and unconditional

422

: 00:20:46

love and safety and security

423

: 00:20:50

That's what we're all after and

that's what, that's what God offers.

424

: 00:20:54

And then the church comes and like,

you know, carries them to us and

425

: 00:20:57

allows us ways in which we can remain

so much closer to the Lord and grow.

426

: 00:21:01

And, and then the community

that just comes with people

427

: 00:21:04

around it and everything.

428

: 00:21:05

But I just think that whole,

appeal of being cherished in

429

: 00:21:09

that way by him and a belonging

430

: 00:21:11

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

Yeah.

431

: 00:21:12

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

to him is I think more what.

432

: 00:21:17

Is the heartache of people.

433

: 00:21:18

And I think lead instead with

434

: 00:21:24

many things that are lifestyle choices.

435

: 00:21:27

If you know what I'm saying, then what

happens if I'm following an influencer

436

: 00:21:30

and she's made so much out of, you

know, finding your soulmate, meeting

437

: 00:21:33

the right person, and then how wonderful

it is to have married this kind of man.

438

: 00:21:37

And you just aren't meeting anyone.

439

: 00:21:38

It's just like the main thing

that this Catholic influencer who

440

: 00:21:41

has a lot to offer in terms of.

441

: 00:21:43

I hope her relationship with God,

it's like, if I don't get that one

442

: 00:21:47

thing, we'll then kind of forget it.

443

: 00:21:48

Or the influencer, it's all about

her kids and the family life she's

444

: 00:21:52

building with the domestic church.

445

: 00:21:53

Okay.

446

: 00:21:53

Well, and if the Lord has not, if my

fertility is not what I wanted it to

447

: 00:21:58

be, and I'm just sitting here going,

okay, well, I can't, I can't have that.

448

: 00:22:01

And so what is this for me?

449

: 00:22:03

think we may be lead with the

wrong things in those ways.

450

: 00:22:06

And I think we need to lead with.

451

: 00:22:09

really what is going on in the human

heart and those universal desires

452

: 00:22:14

because what he is offering us is this

experience of cherished belonging.

453

: 00:22:17

And, and I think really the way

to women is through the individual

454

: 00:22:23

heart, like her need for healing.

455

: 00:22:24

The fact that only through Jesus

can her heart truly be fully healed.

456

: 00:22:29

And the first taste of that kind

of love is going to come from us.

457

: 00:22:33

And so we need to be offering That

experience of cherished belonging in

458

: 00:22:39

a breathtaking, almost shocking way.

459

: 00:22:42

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

Yes, totally.

460

: 00:22:43

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

Okay.

461

: 00:22:44

So if all my time is spent being

an influencer online and you

462

: 00:22:49

know, all the things that I'm

wanting people to learn from.

463

: 00:22:52

I don't think I'm going to have time to

give the actual people in front of me an

464

: 00:22:56

experience of cherished belonging with me.

465

: 00:22:59

Um, if my boundaries are so far up,

if really, to be honest, what I've

466

: 00:23:03

made my main focus is my own self care

and my prayer life as a part of that.

467

: 00:23:08

Okay.

468

: 00:23:08

I see so much of this.

469

: 00:23:10

Like it's the umbrella is self care.

470

: 00:23:12

Prayer is a part of it.

471

: 00:23:14

It's like, no, no, no.

472

: 00:23:15

Like that's the wrong order.

473

: 00:23:16

You know, it really, I don't know.

474

: 00:23:18

I just think we, we can get

off in some of these ways.

475

: 00:23:20

And so then our desire to, to see women's

hearts just cracked open and met with the

476

: 00:23:27

love of God, um, It becomes a really good

intention, but it doesn't really happen.

477

: 00:23:32

And I think giving each person

we encounter an experience from

478

: 00:23:37

us of cherished belonging has got

to be one of our primary focuses.

479

: 00:23:41

If you have a heart for

480

: 00:23:43

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454: Yes.

481

: 00:23:44

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

you don't then fine, just do it for the

482

: 00:23:46

people that are right in front of you.

483

: 00:23:47

But if you have a heart for

evangelism, meeting people where

484

: 00:23:50

they are in this way and not

485

: 00:23:53

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

leading.

486

: 00:23:54

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

meeting them,

487

: 00:23:55

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

Meeting them where they're at, truly

488

: 00:23:57

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

Yes.

489

: 00:23:58

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

down to where they're at, right?

490

: 00:23:59

At a whole different level

than where you may be at and

491

: 00:24:02

leading with the love of Christ.

492

: 00:24:03

I think that's the message that

like we're hearing here right now is

493

: 00:24:06

that there's many beautiful things

about the teachings of the faith.

494

: 00:24:09

There's many, you know, um, things that

make sense that the, that the church

495

: 00:24:13

teaches, um, that's for our good, but not

everybody's ready to hear those things and

496

: 00:24:18

not everybody's ready to hear that right

off the bat and not everybody's going

497

: 00:24:21

to believe that or be convicted in that.

498

: 00:24:23

Even if in the end.

499

: 00:24:24

You know, God's original plan is

what's going to be best for them.

500

: 00:24:28

So leading with the love of Christ.

501

: 00:24:30

'cause that is at our core,

our biggest human desire.

502

: 00:24:34

We have this

503

: 00:24:35

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

Yeah.

504

: 00:24:38

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

And nothing will fill it

505

: 00:24:39

besides the love of Christ.

506

: 00:24:40

And as fallen broken humans who experience

fallenness and brokenness all around

507

: 00:24:44

us all the time, we're constantly

met with other broken humans, right.

508

: 00:24:48

That continue to, to wound that

and to, um, just like even.

509

: 00:24:53

Open more that gaping desire of, like,

wanting to be fully loved and fully

510

: 00:24:57

cherished and fully, um, cared for and

desired by one who, you know, would

511

: 00:25:03

do it, uh, unconditionally, right?

512

: 00:25:05

Um, and so absolutely like leading

with the love of Christ, especially

513

: 00:25:09

if you are being called to evangelize

and being called to step out and bring

514

: 00:25:13

these people back back to the church.

515

: 00:25:14

But.

516

: 00:25:15

Do you have any other practical

steps that we can take to gently

517

: 00:25:19

invite women back to the faith

518

: 00:25:21

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454: Mm

519

: 00:25:21

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

without maybe overwhelming

520

: 00:25:23

them or, um, alienating them?

521

: 00:25:26

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

yeah, I do.

522

: 00:25:27

Can I first tell a story?

523

: 00:25:28

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

Yeah.

524

: 00:25:30

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

Okay.

525

: 00:25:30

And then I'll give the practical

things I learned from it.

526

: 00:25:32

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

Perfect.

527

: 00:25:33

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

a life changing year due to an experience

528

: 00:25:38

of a relationship with someone, um,

I met a little over a year ago, who I

529

: 00:25:44

knew desperately needed the love of God.

530

: 00:25:47

And I, um, I was all in like, I'm

like, I will make this, I will

531

: 00:25:52

totally clear time on my schedule

to spend time with this person.

532

: 00:25:54

And, um, and I just thought,

okay, true confessions.

533

: 00:25:58

I'm like, this is kind

of what I'm good at.

534

: 00:25:59

Like I know how to talk about the Lord

in a way that, you know, is appealing.

535

: 00:26:04

And I was all set, um, to start that.

536

: 00:26:08

what this, um, young person said to me

was, um, And I knew here, this important

537

: 00:26:15

background, I knew what was needed was

an experience of unconditional love in

538

: 00:26:19

order to be able to really contemplate the

possibility of God being unconditional in

539

: 00:26:23

his love for this young person as well.

540

: 00:26:26

Um, and this young person, I

basically had early on conversations.

541

: 00:26:29

Will you trust me?

542

: 00:26:30

You know, can we, you know, have

a more intentional relationship

543

: 00:26:33

where we're talking about things?

544

: 00:26:35

And this young person said to me,

yes, but the only thing is you are

545

: 00:26:38

not allowed to talk about God to me.

546

: 00:26:40

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454: Ooh.

547

: 00:26:41

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

go zone.

548

: 00:26:42

I was like, Oh, but that's everything.

549

: 00:26:45

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

You're like, how are we going?

550

: 00:26:46

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

I'm like, then I can't

551

: 00:26:47

use any of the words.

552

: 00:26:48

I can't say anything.

553

: 00:26:48

And, but what I wrote, but I did

not feel a release from the Lord

554

: 00:26:52

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454: Hmm.

555

: 00:26:53

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

but it wasn't like, Oh,

556

: 00:26:53

well, you're off the hook.

557

: 00:26:54

If you can't share about me with this

person in the way that you're used to

558

: 00:26:57

doing, then you don't have to do it.

559

: 00:26:59

It was very much.

560

: 00:26:59

It was a clear call from the Lord to

step in really in the role of a mother

561

: 00:27:02

is, is why, you know, this is Graham.

562

: 00:27:05

So anyway.

563

: 00:27:07

I had to learn to share the love of

Christ without ever talking about God.

564

: 00:27:12

And that's actually harder

than you might think.

565

: 00:27:15

So I was a step even beyond not

talking about the goodness of the

566

: 00:27:18

church or the goodness of church.

567

: 00:27:19

She was like, I couldn't talk about God.

568

: 00:27:21

So what I first had to do is I had

to become an utterly safe person.

569

: 00:27:27

And this young person's life,

570

: 00:27:28

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

Yeah.

571

: 00:27:29

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

had to become an utterly trustworthy

572

: 00:27:31

person in this person's life.

573

: 00:27:32

I had to become someone where my words

could be counted on not to wound.

574

: 00:27:38

But instead to be a bomb, had to

become a truth teller because if

575

: 00:27:43

ever I would be caught in a lie,

the trustworthiness would be gone.

576

: 00:27:46

I had to learn how to, um,

how to show up regularly.

577

: 00:27:51

I mean, there was just so much in

just, um, learning how to be the kind

578

: 00:27:57

of person in this young person's life

that my love felt similar to the way

579

: 00:28:02

I would describe the love of God.

580

: 00:28:04

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

Yeah.

581

: 00:28:04

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

talking to him about it, I had to be that.

582

: 00:28:07

this young person's life, wanted to talk

about deeper things and this is where

583

: 00:28:11

this gets practical I wanted to talk about

the the big questions of life and so did

584

: 00:28:15

this young person and so The way that I

did it and this is the practical advice.

585

: 00:28:19

I would give is to is to Vigilantly

love well, like no careless words.

586

: 00:28:27

No, um, no ghosting and even the

smallest of ways no um It's got to be

587

: 00:28:33

super sacrificial and super consistent

and steady in the way that you show up.

588

: 00:28:37

No flakiness, right?

589

: 00:28:38

Um, leaving, you know, an open

message, whatever all the things

590

: 00:28:42

that get our feelings hurt, right?

591

: 00:28:43

None of that.

592

: 00:28:44

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454: Yes.

593

: 00:28:45

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

Meeting them in the

594

: 00:28:46

mess, loving them there.

595

: 00:28:48

And then this is key, finding the truth

and the goodness that they already

596

: 00:28:51

have and are already experiencing.

597

: 00:28:53

Okay.

598

: 00:28:54

So we're all searching for

truth, beauty, and goodness.

599

: 00:28:57

So instead of my starting by

going, this is where it is.

600

: 00:29:00

I go to, I went to this young person.

601

: 00:29:01

I'm like, where are

you encountering truth?

602

: 00:29:04

are you and coming beauty?

603

: 00:29:05

Where are you encountering,

encountering goodness?

604

: 00:29:09

um, and I didn't then go, okay, now

would you like to hear where I am?

605

: 00:29:12

I said, nothing.

606

: 00:29:12

I just asked.

607

: 00:29:13

I just got, I just deeper and deeper and

deeper and deeper got to know this person.

608

: 00:29:17

I'm like, if they ask me,

I will share with them.

609

: 00:29:20

They didn't ask.

610

: 00:29:20

It was such a delight to be.

611

: 00:29:23

With someone who wanted you

just to know them, they didn't

612

: 00:29:25

ask them like, that's fine.

613

: 00:29:26

Then it's not the time.

614

: 00:29:27

The way in which I found this young

person was encountering truth,

615

: 00:29:31

beauty, and goodness was through

the music being listened to.

616

: 00:29:34

The TV shows being watched, the movies

being watched, the books being read.

617

: 00:29:38

so every single time a book recommendation

was given to me, I read it every time.

618

: 00:29:43

We, what do you think of this podcast?

619

: 00:29:44

What do you think of this song?

620

: 00:29:46

What do you think of this TV show?

621

: 00:29:48

I watched all of it.

622

: 00:29:48

I was watching to and taking

in more secular content

623

: 00:29:53

than I ever have in my life.

624

: 00:29:54

Um, but in it, what I was finding

was that thread That goes through

625

: 00:30:00

everything, which is the human person

searching for truth beating goodness.

626

: 00:30:03

And then I was able through that

discussion of that movie, through

627

: 00:30:07

the discussion of that song to find

the good, to point it out and to

628

: 00:30:11

be able to say, this is the part of

it that I loved because it speaks

629

: 00:30:14

to me of love or it speaks to me of

beauty or it speaks to me of truth.

630

: 00:30:17

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454: Hmm.

631

: 00:30:18

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

for a good year, I didn't

632

: 00:30:21

ever take it longer than that.

633

: 00:30:23

But all of what I had now, I had

this massive, vocabulary instead of

634

: 00:30:28

illustrations instead of experiences

that when there was a clear moment in our

635

: 00:30:32

relationship when trust was established

and it was about a year in and I knew

636

: 00:30:37

it was established because a letter was

written to me saying the way I've been

637

: 00:30:41

loved in this year, like I can see.

638

: 00:30:44

I can see you can, you can be trusted.

639

: 00:30:47

You can be studied.

640

: 00:30:50

and I know it was causing

this young person to go and

641

: 00:30:52

maybe God's like that too,

642

: 00:30:54

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454: Wow.

643

: 00:30:55

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

because it hadn't been yet experienced

644

: 00:30:56

in, in other relationships.

645

: 00:30:58

But then I felt like after that year,

once that trust was established, I

646

: 00:31:02

could start saying in that song, okay,

see, this is why This is why I have the

647

: 00:31:07

relationship with God that I do, because,

you know, I see in this song, that's him.

648

: 00:31:13

true of him.

649

: 00:31:15

And so we were, and then that's

all I would say, but it gave us

650

: 00:31:17

this common language, which wasn't.

651

: 00:31:19

whole body of language that, um, so

many of the people we know and love who

652

: 00:31:25

have walked away have had just enough

of it that it's almost like a vaccine.

653

: 00:31:29

It's, it's almost like they hear

you starting to talk about, it's

654

: 00:31:31

like, I already, I've already

had some of that and I'm actually

655

: 00:31:33

resistant to it the way a vaccine is.

656

: 00:31:35

This gave us a whole new set of things to

talk about those deeper principles, and to

657

: 00:31:41

get at the same, the same thing and what

I've been seeing is the heart opening.

658

: 00:31:45

Slowly to God, but it's a genuine opening.

659

: 00:31:47

It's, it's not a, you know, my

goal isn't to like get this young

660

: 00:31:51

person to sit in the church pew.

661

: 00:31:53

No, my goal is a heart that's been

totally won over by Jesus Christ that

662

: 00:31:58

the whole life is going to be changed.

663

: 00:32:00

And, um, yeah.

664

: 00:32:04

So anyway, I, um, it's taken

a tremendous amount of time.

665

: 00:32:09

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

Yeah.

666

: 00:32:10

I mean, that is patient.

667

: 00:32:12

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

you know?

668

: 00:32:12

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454: Yes.

669

: 00:32:13

And I mean, it does definitely like

reflect the heart of the father,

670

: 00:32:16

like that relentless pursuit, no

matter what, no matter where we are.

671

: 00:32:21

Right?

672

: 00:32:21

Like no matter what we're going through

or how much we want to hide from

673

: 00:32:26

him or anything, like he's there, he

pursues, he's loving, he's patient and

674

: 00:32:31

he goes after you and he goes after

you and he goes after you and I feel

675

: 00:32:33

like in a very gentle way, you did

that with this person of just patient

676

: 00:32:38

and pursuit of their heart, right?

677

: 00:32:41

Without an agenda, like truly,

678

: 00:32:43

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

an agenda.

679

: 00:32:44

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

yeah.

680

: 00:32:45

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

so key.

681

: 00:32:46

Without an agenda.

682

: 00:32:47

was no agenda.

683

: 00:32:48

Like, I, I don't know where

the story is going to end.

684

: 00:32:51

That's not, that's not up to me.

685

: 00:32:53

Can I just share one more thing that

I think was really key and really

686

: 00:32:56

important that maybe we can all apply.

687

: 00:32:59

I have learned so much

from this young person.

688

: 00:33:02

I have been changed.

689

: 00:33:04

young person.

690

: 00:33:05

And I think that for us in our

conversations with people, when we

691

: 00:33:08

want them to come back to the church,

oftentimes, um, we have this idea of, I

692

: 00:33:12

want to get you from here to here, right?

693

: 00:33:15

I want you to move, but if we can

enter into their worlds and see which

694

: 00:33:18

questions they're exploring, and this is

key, learn from them first, before you

695

: 00:33:26

teach them, you learn from them first.

696

: 00:33:27

And then you tell them

what you're learning.

697

: 00:33:29

I am learning this from you.

698

: 00:33:31

am being changed.

699

: 00:33:32

By you because you were

influencing me in these ways.

700

: 00:33:35

What that does, it like changes.

701

: 00:33:37

It's like gives permission in this

relationship that we can both do that.

702

: 00:33:40

We can both have a paradigm shift

and it's a safe place to do that.

703

: 00:33:44

And we can learn from each

other, but you go first.

704

: 00:33:47

You go first learning from them.

705

: 00:33:48

It's incredibly disarming and

opens up the possibility then.

706

: 00:33:53

Of them maybe learning something

different, different from you, because

707

: 00:33:57

what you're doing is you are modeling for

them what you hope to see in them, right?

708

: 00:34:02

But you're genuinely modeling it because

you have genuinely learned from them.

709

: 00:34:05

Like, I have genuinely been

changed by this young person

710

: 00:34:07

in ways I'm so grateful for.

711

: 00:34:09

It's not blowing sunshine, you know,

712

: 00:34:11

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

Yeah.

713

: 00:34:13

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

we know it when someone's just

714

: 00:34:14

saying it, but it isn't true.

715

: 00:34:16

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

Beautiful.

716

: 00:34:17

Beautiful.

717

: 00:34:18

Um, do you want to circle back

now to some practical steps we can

718

: 00:34:23

take to invite, you know, these

women who have maybe walked away?

719

: 00:34:26

Maybe we have somebody in our life

that's, That's similar to this person,

720

: 00:34:30

you know, who have walked away and, um,

maybe they're in the same place where

721

: 00:34:33

like, they don't even want to hear about

God or maybe there are more open, but

722

: 00:34:36

they're just like very, um, skeptical,

you know, or unsure about coming back.

723

: 00:34:42

What are some practical steps that we

can take to gently invite women back to

724

: 00:34:46

the faith without being overwhelming?

725

: 00:34:49

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

I think that only step out to do that if

726

: 00:34:52

you are willing to love in radical ways.

727

: 00:34:55

If you don't have time love in

radical ways and just do the

728

: 00:34:59

things I was just talking about

about building relationships.

729

: 00:35:04

Then I would almost say then don't do it.

730

: 00:35:06

Like, don't, I mean, unless you know

you've got a great Bible study that

731

: 00:35:10

you think would be a great fit for

them or a great, you know, book club,

732

: 00:35:12

you know, sure you can invite them

to things or whatever, but like the

733

: 00:35:15

transformation is going to come, I

believe in the context of relationship.

734

: 00:35:19

there aren't, there isn't a

checklist of say this, do that.

735

: 00:35:23

No, it's like, when I say like the

needle will move just a little bit,

736

: 00:35:26

it'll be like a year of loving.

737

: 00:35:28

And then there's this little step forward.

738

: 00:35:29

Right.

739

: 00:35:30

So it's, to me, the practical

step is, Really taking a hard

740

: 00:35:35

look at that relationship.

741

: 00:35:36

Am I, am I, am I an encourager

in this person's life?

742

: 00:35:41

Am I a source of steady support in

this person's life as the majority

743

: 00:35:45

of what I am saying, something that

is really, um, building them up.

744

: 00:35:51

And, um, am I a truth teller

so that, you know, I'm not

745

: 00:35:55

like whitewashing over things.

746

: 00:35:57

If we get into stuff, we get into stuff

and I'm honest, but, um, I really do

747

: 00:36:02

think it's, it is relationship, but I do

think there are resources that can help.

748

: 00:36:06

And one of those things, this is, um,

this is what I've been most passionate

749

: 00:36:11

about for many years because I, you know,

I wrote, um, I don't know, like, I don't

750

: 00:36:16

know, maybe I've written 15 Bible studies.

751

: 00:36:18

I don't even know which Bible

studies I've written to be honest.

752

: 00:36:20

But, um, I did that and then I

started really working with middle

753

: 00:36:24

school girls and high school girls

754

: 00:36:26

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

Okay.

755

: 00:36:27

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

offering them a Bible study

756

: 00:36:28

is not going to do the trick.

757

: 00:36:29

Like that is not where they're at.

758

: 00:36:31

That's not what they think is helpful.

759

: 00:36:32

And so I've had to take all these steps

back, which means I've spent the last

760

: 00:36:35

seven years in the land of the skeptics.

761

: 00:36:37

Like literally, All my time is being

spent with people who are like checking

762

: 00:36:42

out, this isn't engaging for me.

763

: 00:36:43

So I really had to learn what

is engaging, what draws the

764

: 00:36:46

person out into conversation.

765

: 00:36:48

And so I created a high school

program that just got published last

766

: 00:36:51

year called sisters to strength.

767

: 00:36:53

That's very different from other

discipleship courses because

768

: 00:36:55

it really meets girls with the

questions they're asking around

769

: 00:36:58

identity and friendship and purpose.

770

: 00:37:01

um, And we've had young adult studies,

Bible studies, which I'm so glad

771

: 00:37:06

we've got that on offer for girls

who are ready and hungry for it.

772

: 00:37:08

And they get really good

responses and sell super well.

773

: 00:37:11

But I thought there's a whole demographic

of women in their twenties for whom

774

: 00:37:15

they don't want to go to a Bible study.

775

: 00:37:16

They don't think that's

going to be helpful.

776

: 00:37:18

You invite them to your book club and

they're like, I can see through it.

777

: 00:37:21

It's, it's just the same.

778

: 00:37:22

It's, it's you and all your super

uber Catholic friends trying to

779

: 00:37:24

get me to believe something that I

want to go to the book club either.

780

: 00:37:27

And so I met with a group of young people

all in their twenties, To basically say,

781

: 00:37:33

you know, think of the person in your

life, your sister, your friend, your

782

: 00:37:37

brother, whomever that you really wish

was walking really in freedom and love

783

: 00:37:42

in a relationship with Christ and what

has worked, what hasn't worked for them.

784

: 00:37:45

And with these young people, we,

we developed, we developed some

785

: 00:37:49

resources that I think actually

can really, really be helpful.

786

: 00:37:51

And this is something practical that

you could put in the hands of, um, of

787

: 00:37:56

someone that you really care about.

788

: 00:37:57

And one of those is we

did, um, we did an online.

789

: 00:38:01

course, and it's called Heart of Vines,

which is coming from a John Bellion song.

790

: 00:38:05

And it's this idea that we all have

vines around our hearts, and they're

791

: 00:38:09

vines that are lies about our identity.

792

: 00:38:11

They're vines that's like our

perfectionism, those vines of, you

793

: 00:38:13

know, the bad choices we've made,

the screwed up relationships we've

794

: 00:38:16

got, like, our hearts are tangled.

795

: 00:38:19

And that is a starting point for all

of us, that we want that untangled.

796

: 00:38:22

And so we take Um, we take people

on a journey through the garden

797

: 00:38:26

of their hearts, and in the first

section of it, it's called uproot.

798

: 00:38:29

We're uprooting all the things that

are really not serving us well, and

799

: 00:38:33

they can be beliefs about us, beliefs

about the world, beliefs about God,

800

: 00:38:36

um, ways in which we are living stories

that we're believing about what's going

801

: 00:38:40

to really bring us happiness and joy.

802

: 00:38:42

And then in the next section,

it's called, um, cultivate.

803

: 00:38:46

And it's, what are the things then

that we want to put in the garden?

804

: 00:38:49

um, lastly, flourish, what kind of a

trellis Do we need to have, if we're

805

: 00:38:53

going to continue to live in this way?

806

: 00:38:55

take a really long time in this course.

807

: 00:38:57

It's like a masterclass style,

um, to even mention God.

808

: 00:39:01

And what I do is I take an extremely

long time to just get the person's

809

: 00:39:06

head nodding, but you actually do know

what I'm going through and what I care

810

: 00:39:11

about and what it feels like to be me.

811

: 00:39:13

And not until that's established.

812

: 00:39:16

Do we start to talk about what

maybe would be some helpful beliefs?

813

: 00:39:20

And that's what I think is missing,

Mari, is I think we jump right

814

: 00:39:24

into the solution with people

and they aren't engaged with us.

815

: 00:39:27

But we, I spend enough time really

getting the person to nod along

816

: 00:39:31

going, okay, actually you are naming.

817

: 00:39:35

What I'm experiencing because what I'm

doing I have disengaged from the ship

818

: 00:39:38

and I am floating towards nothingness And

I wouldn't necessarily describe it that

819

: 00:39:42

way But I can describe to you what that

feels like and when I describe what that

820

: 00:39:45

feels like, you know And and they start

to go yeah And and I've tried this to

821

: 00:39:49

tether to something and it's not leading

me anywhere and then I tried to tether to

822

: 00:39:52

this and that's not Working when we start

to describe that People start to lean in.

823

: 00:39:57

And so we've developed it as a

course that you can just do privately

824

: 00:40:01

online, um, masterclass style.

825

: 00:40:03

We've also written it in book format

because some people prefer to read.

826

: 00:40:06

And then there's an accompanying

journal with really, really

827

: 00:40:09

good journaling questions.

828

: 00:40:10

And so this is a great resource

to put in the hands of a friend.

829

: 00:40:16

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454: Wow.

830

: 00:40:17

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

the reason why is because

831

: 00:40:19

Iris, we respect where these.

832

: 00:40:21

Young women are coming from and it's not,

you won't feel like you're a project.

833

: 00:40:25

You'll feel like you're being

met in your mess, where you are,

834

: 00:40:29

that it's not being trivialized,

trivialized, and that you are slowly

835

: 00:40:33

led towards a different perspective.

836

: 00:40:34

But all the while the

people have reviewed.

837

: 00:40:39

in the book have said, you so

deeply respect your listener

838

: 00:40:44

or your reader or your unit.

839

: 00:40:46

It's so clear that they're not a project

you deeply respect where they're from.

840

: 00:40:50

And so there's a tone to it that

I think is really different.

841

: 00:40:53

I haven't seen anything else

quite like it out, out there.

842

: 00:40:56

And we are going to be releasing

that at the beginning of March.

843

: 00:41:00

So it's the pipe, but it's going to

be a great thing that you can put into

844

: 00:41:04

the hands of someone that you love.

845

: 00:41:06

Um, but if you're going to do that.

846

: 00:41:08

I really hope you've got the

relationship with him or her

847

: 00:41:12

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454: Yes.

848

: 00:41:14

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

really being worked on.

849

: 00:41:16

Cause

850

: 00:41:16

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454: So,

851

: 00:41:16

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

biggest,

852

: 00:41:17

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

so do you recommend, um, and you just

853

: 00:41:20

answered part of it now, um, having

that relationship established first,

854

: 00:41:24

that trust established first, but then

do you feel like this is a resource

855

: 00:41:27

that could be passed on to somebody who

is not currently active in the church?

856

: 00:41:32

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

it is for someone

857

: 00:41:33

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

It is.

858

: 00:41:34

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

currently after.

859

: 00:41:35

No, that's not to say someone wouldn't

benefit from going through it.

860

: 00:41:38

Who already is.

861

: 00:41:40

You

862

: 00:41:40

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

Yeah.

863

: 00:41:41

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

will benefit from it

864

: 00:41:41

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

Yeah.

865

: 00:41:42

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

by the end.

866

: 00:41:43

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

It sounds very much what like a

867

: 00:41:44

lot of women need regardless, you

know, and like working through

868

: 00:41:47

those tingles in your heart, those

lies uprooting, like all that.

869

: 00:41:51

I'm like, uh, we, we might all need that.

870

: 00:41:53

Yeah.

871

: 00:41:53

Yeah.

872

: 00:41:53

Yeah.

873

: 00:41:54

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

We all need it.

874

: 00:41:54

We all need it.

875

: 00:41:56

We all do.

876

: 00:41:56

And the last section of it flourished.

877

: 00:41:58

That's really about the

basics of discipleship.

878

: 00:42:00

I don't use that word.

879

: 00:42:02

I'm very careful.

880

: 00:42:03

My word choice, that is

not an appealing word.

881

: 00:42:04

Normal people don't use

the word discipleship.

882

: 00:42:06

I'm sorry, they don't.

883

: 00:42:07

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454: Yes.

884

: 00:42:07

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

many words that we use as Catholics

885

: 00:42:09

and people are like, what are you

886

: 00:42:10

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

What does that mean?

887

: 00:42:11

Yeah.

888

: 00:42:12

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

What does that mean?

889

: 00:42:12

That's church talk, you know, so I,

I don't use those words, but yeah,

890

: 00:42:15

no, it's, it's definitely something.

891

: 00:42:17

I, I, I know who we wrote it for

and I know loads of people are going

892

: 00:42:22

to do it and they're going to be

like, that isn't where I was at,

893

: 00:42:24

but I've benefited so much from it.

894

: 00:42:26

But I just think there's, um, there's just

not enough out there that really respects

895

: 00:42:30

where the skeptic is and gives her time

896

: 00:42:34

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454: Yes.

897

: 00:42:35

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

where her questions are respected, you

898

: 00:42:37

know, where her, her, um, barriers.

899

: 00:42:41

Where we say, you know, fair point, that

is a big barrier that is hard to get past.

900

: 00:42:46

Let's sit in this for a minute.

901

: 00:42:47

Let's explore this.

902

: 00:42:48

Let's not just jump over

and go, yeah, yeah, yeah.

903

: 00:42:51

But look at all the

things that are so good.

904

: 00:42:52

Like that's not effective for people.

905

: 00:42:54

They need to be given the time to look

at their doubts and, and those things.

906

: 00:42:58

And, and let's be honest, those of us who

are practicing Catholics, who have, you

907

: 00:43:02

know, been walking with the Lord, maybe

even our whole lives, we've got those too.

908

: 00:43:07

We do.

909

: 00:43:07

And if you don't, it's because

suffering hasn't hit you yet because

910

: 00:43:11

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454: Oh

911

: 00:43:12

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

does, the questions

912

: 00:43:13

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

Oh yeah.

913

: 00:43:14

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

and you know what I'm saying?

914

: 00:43:17

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

Absolutely.

915

: 00:43:18

I know what you're saying.

916

: 00:43:19

I've felt that in my own life for sure.

917

: 00:43:21

For sure.

918

: 00:43:21

So speaking truth, Lisa, is there

anything else that you want to

919

: 00:43:25

share with our listeners today?

920

: 00:43:29

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

Oh gosh.

921

: 00:43:29

Um, let's say average age of your

listener would you say, Marie?

922

: 00:43:34

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

Um, most of them are like 23 to like 35.

923

: 00:43:42

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

Oh my gosh.

924

: 00:43:43

Like my favorite age.

925

: 00:43:44

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454: Yes.

926

: 00:43:45

Like, like usually, like, I think most

of them are like right out of college.

927

: 00:43:49

It's funny.

928

: 00:43:50

My audience grows with me, you know?

929

: 00:43:52

So for a long time, mostly college

age girls, but actually every time I

930

: 00:43:55

go back and check, I'm like, Oh, wow.

931

: 00:43:57

There's actually more and more

women that are like in their

932

: 00:43:59

twenties, you know, early thirties.

933

: 00:44:02

So a lot of them, yeah.

934

: 00:44:03

Are you really just growing along with me?

935

: 00:44:04

And I just turned 27.

936

: 00:44:06

So in the middle of that,

937

: 00:44:09

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

Yeah, that's how walking

938

: 00:44:10

with purpose has been too.

939

: 00:44:11

And it's because people trust you

and they're walking with you, you

940

: 00:44:14

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

I don't know.

941

: 00:44:15

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

I would say just imparting one is that

942

: 00:44:19

not a single one of you that I wouldn't

love to sit down and have coffee with

943

: 00:44:22

and hear what is on your heart because

what is on your heart so matters.

944

: 00:44:28

And if I had time with you and you didn't

think I was weird, I would probably.

945

: 00:44:33

Cup your face in my hands and just say,

I see you, I see how hard you are trying.

946

: 00:44:39

I see you giving your life,

your all, and it is hard.

947

: 00:44:45

And I just want you to know that who you

are and what you are doing is enough.

948

: 00:44:53

It's enough in the eyes of your heavenly

father who just looks at you with

949

: 00:44:59

infinite love and he's so proud of you.

950

: 00:45:03

And when you mess up.

951

: 00:45:05

And he sees that he just knows you're

aiming for something that's probably a

952

: 00:45:11

really, really good desire, a desire,

even that he gave you a desire for

953

: 00:45:14

security, a desire for belonging,

a desire to be loved, to be wanted,

954

: 00:45:19

you know, whatever it would be, you

just aimed a little bit off, right?

955

: 00:45:23

You thought that thing or

that behavior, that person or

956

: 00:45:26

whatever would get you there.

957

: 00:45:28

And it didn't.

958

: 00:45:28

And you're sitting in this moment

feeling so mad at yourself and so

959

: 00:45:31

frustrated and he's like, Hey, listen,

what you aimed for was a little off.

960

: 00:45:37

Aim at me, aim at me for those very

same things, because I love you.

961

: 00:45:42

we're in this together and you are moving

forward and, and you're just beautiful.

962

: 00:45:48

You're beautiful mess.

963

: 00:45:50

You're beautiful in the during.

964

: 00:45:52

And, um, so take heart.

965

: 00:45:55

Don't give up, keep persevering.

966

: 00:45:57

It's hard to be in your twenties.

967

: 00:45:59

People say, it's like, you've

got all the choices in the world.

968

: 00:46:02

And that's so great.

969

: 00:46:02

And you're like, oh my gosh, I'm so

overwhelmed by the plethora of choices.

970

: 00:46:06

These are not easy years.

971

: 00:46:07

They aren't,

972

: 00:46:08

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

Totally.

973

: 00:46:08

Totally.

974

: 00:46:09

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

you are loved and seen.

975

: 00:46:11

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

That was so beautiful.

976

: 00:46:13

Thank you, Lisa.

977

: 00:46:14

I feel like those are all words that

come straight from a mother's heart and

978

: 00:46:17

thank you so much for coming on today

and sharing your heart and your wisdom.

979

: 00:46:22

It is, it is very clear how much

you care, um, and love the women

980

: 00:46:26

that you're serving and really care

about helping them encounter the

981

: 00:46:29

love of Christ first and foremost.

982

: 00:46:31

So where can our listeners find more of

you and more of walking with purpose?

983

: 00:46:36

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

Yeah.

984

: 00:46:36

So that would be walking with purpose.

985

: 00:46:38

com and, um, so you can go to

the website, you can follow us on

986

: 00:46:42

social and, um, we're on, we're

on Instagram, Pinterest, Facebook.

987

: 00:46:47

I don't think any of your listeners are

probably on Facebook, but we are there.

988

: 00:46:50

Probably Instagram is the best place.

989

: 00:46:52

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

Yeah,

990

: 00:46:52

lisa-brenninkmeyer_1_01-08-2025_120454:

um, Yeah.

991

: 00:46:53

And if you, um, if you go onto our

website, you can get ahold of our,

992

: 00:46:56

our, you know, our newsletters and

everything that comes out that way.

993

: 00:47:00

But yeah, I would really keep

an eye out for heart of vines.

994

: 00:47:03

That's the thing that I think would

be the resource that, um, that'll

995

: 00:47:06

be the most beneficial and that'll

be launching beginning of March.

996

: 00:47:10

squadcaster-48hb_2_01-08-2025_100454:

perfect.

997

: 00:47:10

We'll make sure to get all

those links in the show notes

998

: 00:47:12

so people can find them easily.

999

: 00:47:14

Um, and I will just second, you

know, how amazing walking with

: 1000

00:47:18,769 --> 00:47:20,209

purposes before we hit record.

: 1001

00:47:20,209 --> 00:47:23,709

I was telling Lisa that, um, my two best

friends and I, we worked through one of

: 1002

00:47:23,709 --> 00:47:29,879

their Bible studies early last year and

it was very transformative and a lot

: 1003

00:47:29,879 --> 00:47:33,759

for some very fruitful conversations

and it just got right to the heart.

: 1004

00:47:33,769 --> 00:47:34,479

No fluff.

: 1005

00:47:34,489 --> 00:47:36,859

Um, very, very beautiful and moving.

: 1006

00:47:36,859 --> 00:47:41,794

So There's definitely so much goodness

in your resources and I cannot wait

: 1007

00:47:41,794 --> 00:47:44,664

for Heart of Vines and for people to

get their hands on that one as well.

: 1008

00:47:45,814 --> 00:47:46,724

-: 2025

Thanks, Larry.

: 1009

00:47:46,949 --> 00:47:47,799

-: 2025

Thanks, Lisa.