66: We're Taking A Break, Perfectionism Talk, & Silent Retreat Debrief

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mari-wagner_2_06-25-2025_171316:

Hey friends.

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Welcome back.

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Today's episode is gonna be

a little bit of a catch up.

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If you heard last week's episode,

you heard that I decided to take

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a week off social media, or sorry,

that was two weeks ago's episode.

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Um, but then last week I was sharing on

my Instagram about some of the beautiful

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fruits of taking a week off social media.

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And, um, y'all voted to have a podcast

episode to really debrief it, get in.

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To it.

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Um, share the fruits and yeah, so that's

what I'm doing here today, as well

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as giving you a couple other updates.

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Um, I wanted to just share with you

what that week off social media was

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like, what came up, what God revealed,

what I learned, and I'm still learning.

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And I also wanted to tell you

about a book that I started reading

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during that time that is absolutely

rocking my world and I mean that.

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And lastly, just to give you a little

update on the podcast, um, I'll tell

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you more about it at the end, but

we're gonna take a little summer

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break, so I'll leave you with that.

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Listen to the end to get the full update.

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Um, so yeah, let's chat.

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Let's just have a little coffee date.

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You and me fill you in on all the things.

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Hey, I am your host, Mari Wagner,

and you're listening to The Ever Be

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Podcast where Faith Meets Lifestyle.

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I'm so excited you're here.

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Whether you're a new listener

or a longtime follower, I know

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there's something here for you.

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Pull up a chair and listen in for

insightful, real life conversations and

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actionable steps on how to claim the.

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Full life God created you for.

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If you're a woman desiring to live

a Christ-centered life in today's

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modern world, then this is for you.

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Welcome to ever be.

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mari-wagner_2_06-25-2025_171316:

So first, let's talk about the

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week off social media, because.

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Guys, it was really, really, really good.

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Better than I expected.

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Um, I think that when I initially was

thinking about doing it, I was kind of

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uncomfortable with the idea because, not

just because, you know, sometimes it's

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hard to step away from social media.

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It can be very consuming sometimes.

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Um, but also because it's my job.

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And so it just felt like, wow,

I'm just gonna take a week off

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of a major part of my work.

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I don't know, I was struggling with

that a little bit, but I decided

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to do it and it was really good.

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And what made it so good

is that it finally gave me.

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Silence that I didn't realize I needed.

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Um, I just didn't realize how much

noise was actually in my life until I

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stepped away from the constant scrolling,

checking, uploading, and just, I

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don't know, consuming things online.

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I realized I was consuming a

lot more than I was creating.

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And even for someone who's not

a creator, I just feel like

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over consuming social media.

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Or binging TV or stuff like that, or

never allowing space for silence, , can

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affect you and can almost like drain you.

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Like it, it is energy taking

even if we don't realize it.

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So as soon as that noise quieted my life,

I realized that so much bubbled to the

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surface, like stuff that I realized had

been stirring in my soul for months.

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Just things that I hadn't

really made space to sit with

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or to talk to the Lord about.

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Finally had room to come up.

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Another thing that I took away from that

week that I absolutely loved was that

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I had time to do some leisurely things

that I usually never make space for.

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I started reading this book, I, I

mentioned, that my friend Megan Wells

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actually had, , recommended to me kind

of on accident, which I'll talk about.

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More in a second, but truly is rocking me.

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I took a one day silent retreat.

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I painted, which I hadn't done in so long.

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I used to paint all the time growing

up and I love doing it, and so

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I just hadn't done it in years.

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And I actually bought a canvas and

paint and I sat down and I painted.

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I.

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It was so good for my soul.

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, And I went to the pool several times

that week with my, sister-in-law and just

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really allowed myself the space to rest.

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What was weird though was how hard it

was at first, those first couple days.

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To not immediately try to fill

that silence with something or

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that like stillness with something.

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So I noticed this like really strong

urge to do things around the house.

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Like this thought of like, okay,

if I'm not working now I have time.

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So now that I have time I can

do things around the house and

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I can get ahead on housework.

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And once my house is clean and

my to-do list is done, then

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I'll really have time to rest.

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But I started quickly noticing that

pattern and I saw that for what it

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was, and it was just this pattern

in me to, when I feel overwhelmed,

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I respond by making a giant to-do

list and trying to do all of it.

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And it's like I have an aversion to

unproductivity, if that makes sense.

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Like I'm trying to make

use of every moment.

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And so basically I just had this moment

where I realized like, that's not how

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I wanna respond to needing this rest.

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So I continued to challenge myself.

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And when I had that urge to be

productive just for the sake of being

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accomplished, I asked myself like, what

would actually be restful right now?

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Sometimes that meant going for a walk with

the dog or planning a little coffee date

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with a friend, or texting my sister-in-law

and being like, let's meet at the pool.

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Because I just needed to get

outta the house and away from the

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temptation to just keep doing.

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And the more I leaned into

that, the easier it got.

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And I think also reading this book and

kind of getting more into the book really

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opened my eyes to noticing these type

of behaviors and what perfectionism

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looked like played out in my day to day.

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And it was really, really helpful.

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So anyways, so it's time

to talk about the book.

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So this book is called The Heart of

Perfection by Colleen Carol Campbell

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and my friend Megan Wells, if you

follow her on Instagram, her handle

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is at meg's under wells with two Ls.

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Um, she's a dear friend of mine and

we were just texting in a group chat,

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just, I don't even know what about,

but she just sent a picture of her

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like setting up a really cozy like.

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Drawing a bath.

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And she had her little like bath

tray with a drink and her book.

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And so I asked like, oh, like

what book are you reading?

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And then she sent me a closer

photo and a couple screenshots

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of the pages that she liked.

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And I was like, oh.

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My gosh, like I feel so

called out by this book.

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I have to read this.

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So the title is Heart of Perfectionism and

then the subtitle is How the Saints Taught

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Me To Trade My Dream Of Perfect For Gods.

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And as soon as I read that I was

like, yeah, that's like, that's

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exactly, I feel like where I'm at.

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Like I have this notion or this dream of

what perfect looks like and I feel like.

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Trading that for God's plan

is like a sacrifice, right?

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Like God is asking me to trade this

perfect plan that I have in my head for

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his plan, which Hello is already perfect.

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Mine's the one that's not.

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So as soon as I read that title, I

was like, okay, I already relate.

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And then in this screenshots that she

sent, it talks about perfectionists

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and especially spiritual perfectionists

who tend to push themselves constantly

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under the guise of holiness or growth.

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Um, and how we pressure ourselves to

do more, to be better, to grow faster.

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But sometimes that's not what

God's asking us to do at all.

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And when we keep striving for that

version of perfect, we're actually

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being disobedient and we're actually

thinking that we know better than God.

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And so when I read that

too, I was like, wow, that.

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That's me.

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Like that totally called me out.

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And yeah, as I kept reading, well, that

was just when I read the screenshot,

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but then as I started reading it, I

just felt like the author was putting

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language to parts of myself that

I actually didn't even know, had a

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name or what to put words to, and I

felt super seen and super convicted.

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And I just felt this invitation to

let go of this false identity that

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I've built around perfectionism.

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And as I prayed about it, I

felt like I saw this image in my

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mind, this gorgeous big castle.

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Like I've built this castle

of perfectionism, um, and

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it's shimmering and shining.

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And I realize that I've like built

my identity around this castle

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of perfectionism that I've like.

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Yeah, pride in my life to be on.

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And now I feel like the Lord is

gently saying like, let me take

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it down like brick by brick.

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Let me crumble it.

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Let me show you what's underneath.

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And if I'm being honest, I feel like

that is so scary at times to think

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about because I think like, what

if, what if when we break that down,

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like what if there's nothing there?

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Like, like what could be

better than this castle?

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Right?

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It's that same idea that like, how

could, how could God have a better plan?

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Like I, I thought of everything,

you know what I mean?

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Like I planned it all out.

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And also like, what if this

castle like is who I am?

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Like, who am I gonna be if this

isn't like my identity anymore?

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I don't know.

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You know?

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And, and obviously those

things aren't true.

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Um, I.

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And I know, I know in my heart that

underneath that castle there's something

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even more precious that the Lord wants

to reveal to me and wants to give to me.

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And you know, my guess is that it's my

true identity as his beloved daughter.

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And we know that truth

in our heads, right?

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Like we say it, we teach it.

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We.

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Know it in our heads, but it

takes work to actually live it.

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And I truly feel like this book is

helping me to start actually live it.

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So I'm gonna make sure that I link

it in the show notes so you can

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find it if you feel like the Lord

is nudging you to read it as well.

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And one of the things too that I feel

like stood out to me so much is one of

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the early saint stories in the book is

about Saint Jane, Francis d Chantel.

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I probably just totally

butchered that pronunciation.

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Saint Jane, Francis de Chantal.

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Maybe that's better.

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Um, she was as high achieving

driven woman, very perfectionist.

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And her first spiritual director

was super harsh with her.

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And it just made things worse.

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And I mean, there's so much

more to her story, but the point

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here is that then she met St.

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Francis De Sales who.

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Received her with so much gentleness

and it changed everything for her.

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And that word gentleness, I realize has

been echoing in my heart for months.

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Like if I ever snapped at Trey or

got short with somebody or just like

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felt myself, have like less patience,

I like would hear this like inner

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nudge of just like gentleness, mari,

like have gentleness, like be gentle.

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And I kind of kept thinking to

myself like, okay, how like.

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What does this look like?

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And like, why am I struggling to be gentle

like a wife and a mother is gentle, you

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know, like she's the heart of her home.

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Like, I don't wanna be this like, you

know, bridged not loving like woman.

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I, I want to be gentle.

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And then around Pentecost, I saw that I.

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Gentleness is one of the

fruits of the Holy Spirit.

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And I was like, oh, like this is the

Holy Spirit trying to teach me something.

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So when I read in the book about

Francis' sales constantly pointing

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Jane towards gentleness, I felt like

the Lord was talking directly to me.

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And I'm only like five or six chapters

in, but I already know this book is

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going to be a big part of the work that

God is doing in my heart right now.

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And I know that he is leading me towards

gentleness and patience and, , yeah,

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trust, like really trusting that the

Lord is good and that his plans are

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good and better than mine, which.

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Gosh, like as a perfectionist, sometimes

it's hard to believe that or let that

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go, or really let go of your plan.

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But I'm kind of like, part of me

feels like there's gonna be a relief.

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You know?

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Like part of me is like, wow,

like if his plans are really that

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much better, like what a relief.

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Like I can let go of all

the hard work, right?

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And just kind of fall back and trust.

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Okay.

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So on top of all this, I did a one day

silent retreat, which is hilarious because

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I have avoided silent retreats for years.

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And after reading the book and realizing

like, okay, this perfectionism is like

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really deeply rooted in my identity.

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We need to heal.

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We need to grow.

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I finally was able to acknowledge,

it's not the end all be all.

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It's not all good.

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It has served me in many ways and it has

gotten me to where I am in many ways,

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but at the same time, it has also done

damage and we have to acknowledge that.

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And so when I was able to acknowledge

that, I was like, okay, great.

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Now I need to fix it.

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And it's hilarious because like

I'm even approaching this with

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that kind of like intense mindset.

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And so I literally like saturate

down and I was like, look, I

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think I need a seven day silent

retreat because I need to fix this.

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And he looked at me and he's like,

Mari, I've been trying to get you

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to go on a weekend silent retreat

for years, and you've always

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said no because you hate silence.

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And I was like, yeah, but now I

need seven days to fix this problem

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because now God revealed to me the

problem, so now I need to fix it.

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And he's like, that's

literally your perfectionism.

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Talking like that is

impatience right there.

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Like not trusting the Lord to lead

you and guide you in his process of

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working in your heart and you thinking

that you can just fix it in seven days.

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And I was like, okay, yeah.

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Called out.

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Okay.

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We're learning.

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This was like step one,

you know, we're learning.

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So I compromised and I did a one day

retreat and there's an Abby near our house

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and my other friend Cecilia, um, gosh, not

Pappas, that was her Vanna name, Cecilia.

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Brennan, I always forget

her new last name.

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Um, she's also on Instagram

at Cecilia Jean blog.

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She had just gone there recently and so.

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I was texting her about this

and she was telling me like, you

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should just go to this Abbey.

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It's gorgeous.

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You can just show up and do a retreat

there, you know, call the sisters.

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And so I was like, okay.

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Okay.

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So I reached out to the sisters

at the Abbey and I called the

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day before and I was like, hi,

wanna come for Saint Retreat?

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Like any chance I can stop by tomorrow?

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I called on a Sunday not knowing if.

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They would pick up and then they did.

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And then she said, yeah,

just come on tomorrow.

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And she said, you're in luck.

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Monday is our day of perpetual adoration,

so adoration will be exposed all day.

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And I was like, wow,

what a perfect day to go.

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So I drove up there, it was

about an hour away from my house.

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Really?

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Like kind of in, in the

mountains a little bit.

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And um, on a ranch, this is what the

sisters do, so there was cattle and

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horses and farm dogs and everything.

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And I brought my journal, my

bible, the book I'm reading about

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perfectionism, it's an audiobook.

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So I brought my headphones and then I

brought another book and some paints and

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canvas, uh, in case I had extra time.

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Basically just like.

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I had a full day planned for myself,

and I wrote it all in my notes app

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the night before, the exact times

I would read or pray or journal or

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whatever, rosary Classic, you know.

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So anyways, when I got there,

I had this plan in my mind.

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Um, went straight to the chapel

and started my holy hour.

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Um, and immediately I kind of felt

like my mind was like buzzing.

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Um, you know, I was journaling and I was

praying and I was just like trying to get

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it all out and just trying to be like,

okay, God, like we're here to do this.

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Here's where I'm at, like.

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Tell me what to do, you

know, uh, Lord, I'm here.

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Let, let's fix this.

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Let's do this.

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Like, I'm, I'm listening,

you know, what do I do?

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And, and I felt nothing.

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And I was getting kind of frustrated

'cause I'm like, gosh, like, is

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this how it's gonna be today?

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So I closed my journal.

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I looked at Jesus in the

Eucharist and I was like, okay,

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Lord, we have seven hours here.

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Please don't make this like pulling teeth.

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Like, let's make the most use of our time.

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What, what do you have for me today?

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Like, where do I begin?

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: 00:16:18

And I just felt him say so clearly

in my heart, I love you today.

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: 00:16:25

I want you to bask in my love.

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: 00:16:29

And I was like, seriously?

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: 00:16:32

Like, thank you Lord.

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: 00:16:33

Like I.

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: 00:16:35

I love you too, and I love the

reminder that you love me, right?

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: 00:16:38

Like it's always a good

reminder, but is that it?

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: 00:16:42

Like, you're not gonna give me a three

step plan to overcome perfectionism.

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: 00:16:45

You're not gonna give me a, you know,

verse in the Bible inspiration so

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: 00:16:49

I can pray over, you know, healing.

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: 00:16:51

You just, you just wanna ba you just want

me to bask in your love and I felt, you

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: 00:16:58

know, that, just his words in my heart.

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: 00:17:01

One more time.

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: 00:17:02

I love you.

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: 00:17:03

Today, I want you to bask in my love.

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: 00:17:08

And I just felt that really

strongly, so I believed it.

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: 00:17:11

And I deleted the schedule in my notes

app and I just let the Lord lead.

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: 00:17:15

And, uh, I finished my Holy Hour

just in silence, just like sitting

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: 00:17:19

in the Lord's presence, just gazing

at him and just receiving his

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: 00:17:23

presence, his love, and his grace.

325

: 00:17:24

And, and then I went outside and

took in the sun and brought my.

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: 00:17:30

Pleasure book, which is uh, three

to Get Married by Fulton Sheen.

327

: 00:17:33

I hadn't picked it up in a

couple months and I decided

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: 00:17:36

to read a chapter from there.

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: 00:17:38

And of course, the chapter I opened

up to is called What Is Love?

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: 00:17:44

And the first two paragraphs I.

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: 00:17:47

And the whole chapter is about

like, what is God's love?

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: 00:17:51

And even within the first two

paragraphs, it literally talks

333

: 00:17:54

about perfectionism and how if we

were perfect, we wouldn't need God.

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: 00:18:00

So striving for perfectionism is

actually the opposite of the gospel.

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: 00:18:06

Um, and it was just another

moment of the Lord being like,

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: 00:18:09

see, I know what you need.

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: 00:18:13

Just like.

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: 00:18:14

Lean into me, like lean

into my love, you know?

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: 00:18:17

And I went back to the chapel

later and prayed liturgy outta the

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: 00:18:20

hours with the sisters and their

singing was like a heavenly choir.

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: 00:18:24

And then I spent time sitting

and watching the horses outside.

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: 00:18:29

I prayed the rosary and then I

took out my paints and I just,

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: 00:18:33

I painted the rest of the day.

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: 00:18:34

And, it was just beautiful,

beautiful scenery.

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: 00:18:37

So calming.

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: 00:18:39

I mean, a painting takes hours

and hours and hours to paint.

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: 00:18:42

So I didn't get super far, but it

was just so calming to even sit

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: 00:18:45

and like paint on my canvas and

know that I had nowhere else to be.

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: 00:18:49

This is where I was supposed

to be in God's gorgeous nature.

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: 00:18:53

Time spent with him doing something

that's life giving, and by the

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: 00:18:58

end of the day, I just felt.

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: 00:18:59

So much peace.

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: 00:19:00

I felt this stillness in my soul that

I feel like I hadn't felt in years, um,

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: 00:19:06

that I have been searching for, and my

whole drive home was just beautiful.

355

: 00:19:11

Playing worship music and um,

just taking in the beautiful

356

: 00:19:15

scenery even on the drive home.

357

: 00:19:17

And I remember I got home and I was just

like, wow, like this, like peace and

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: 00:19:21

this stillness is truly what I should

be living out of, um, in my day to day.

359

: 00:19:26

Like, not out of this like rush or

belief that I need to be productive,

360

: 00:19:30

but to just live out of this

identity of being beloved, right?

361

: 00:19:34

Like be loved by God.

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: 00:19:36

And that's where you start.

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: 00:19:38

So I hope that all that.

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: 00:19:40

Gives you some food for thought.

365

: 00:19:42

Maybe the Lord is using some of this

to tug at your heartstrings and, , lead

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: 00:19:46

you closer to him or lead you to

recognize that you need more silence

367

: 00:19:50

in your life, or that you need to

maybe also, um, heal from perfectionism

368

: 00:19:55

in a sense, and maybe you need rest.

369

: 00:19:59

So this kind of leads me to the final

update that we're here to share about.

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: 00:20:04

And that is that after stepping

away from social media for a

371

: 00:20:07

week and having that clarity and

silence, I started to ask God more.

372

: 00:20:11

You know, where does he want

my time and energy right now?

373

: 00:20:14

And, also to kind of assess like,

how am I using that time into the

374

: 00:20:20

different like responsibilities and

jobs that I have under me, right?

375

: 00:20:24

As a wife.

376

: 00:20:25

As a business owner and somebody

who, you know, is leading a team

377

: 00:20:29

and running several businesses,

you know, I had to kind of evaluate

378

: 00:20:33

where is this time and energy going

and am I doing these things well?

379

: 00:20:39

Right.

380

: 00:20:40

And I especially felt a desire to do

things differently with the podcast.

381

: 00:20:45

I have some new and

exciting ideas for ever be.

382

: 00:20:48

I wanna refresh it a bit.

383

: 00:20:50

I wanna bring in some new kind of

like weekly segments, maybe even add

384

: 00:20:54

this like community element to it.

385

: 00:20:56

But I can't build something new

while trying to keep the current

386

: 00:20:59

version running at full speed.

387

: 00:21:01

And I think a past version of me would've

done that and kind of would've like,

388

: 00:21:05

made myself bend over backwards to keep

it going so that on the outside you

389

: 00:21:08

would've never known that there was.

390

: 00:21:11

A lot of work and scaffolding happening

behind the scenes, but, this more

391

: 00:21:16

gentle, more understanding and newer

version of me that the Lord is building

392

: 00:21:20

is showing me that it's okay to pause.

393

: 00:21:24

And it's okay.

394

: 00:21:26

You know, like it's okay to take a step

back and I'm not going away forever,

395

: 00:21:29

but I realize that I need to pause

the podcast for the summer, to be able

396

: 00:21:32

to focus on rebuilding ever be in the

way that I kind of have a vision for.

397

: 00:21:38

So, we'll be back in September.

398

: 00:21:40

That's the official update.

399

: 00:21:42

I don't have an exact date yet,

but just know that the show will

400

: 00:21:45

return and it will be even better

and will be back in September.

401

: 00:21:48

But in the meantime, I would.

402

: 00:21:50

Love to hear from you.

403

: 00:21:52

I just, I love when I hear what episodes

have you loved, what do you wish that

404

: 00:21:56

I would cover if there's a topic that

you just wanna hear me talk about.

405

: 00:22:00

And if you have any ideas too

that you think would make the

406

: 00:22:03

podcast, more fun or interesting.

407

: 00:22:05

I wanna know what do you love about other

podcasts that you think would work well

408

: 00:22:08

here or what would you hope that I offered

for you, that I haven't in the past?

409

: 00:22:12

So you can DM me on

Instagram at Ever Be podcast.

410

: 00:22:17

Please send all those dms to the Ever Be

podcast Instagram, so I don't miss those.

411

: 00:22:22

I read everything and your feedback means.

412

: 00:22:24

So much.

413

: 00:22:26

So that is the official update.

414

: 00:22:28

I know y'all will understand and we'll

be back in September rooting us on.

415

: 00:22:33

And the good thing is that if you

haven't listened to all the episodes

416

: 00:22:37

yet, which I'm sure you haven't,

now is the perfect time to catch up.

417

: 00:22:42

There are over 60 episodes logged in our.

418

: 00:22:45

You know, collection here in the

podcast and you can go back to them

419

: 00:22:49

and I promise there's something in

there that is going to bring you

420

: 00:22:52

fruit or encouragement or inspiration.

421

: 00:22:54

Maybe something that you haven't

made the time for, um, in the past,

422

: 00:22:58

whether that's maybe deepening your

faith life or learning something about

423

: 00:23:02

a Christ-centered marriage or clean

living, all the things that I talk about.

424

: 00:23:05

So encourage you to go back and either

re-listen to an episode or listen to

425

: 00:23:10

some that you haven't listened to before.

426

: 00:23:12

Um, and that.

427

: 00:23:15

And that is it you guys.

428

: 00:23:16

That's the update.

429

: 00:23:17

That is what I have to share right now.

430

: 00:23:20

And just wanna thank you for all

your support throughout this journey.

431

: 00:23:23

I got so many messages on

Instagram of people just supporting

432

: 00:23:26

me and taking a step back.

433

: 00:23:27

And I know that a lot of you have been

here for a long time and you've seen

434

: 00:23:31

from afar what life has been like.

435

: 00:23:32

And I know that because I kept messages

of people being like, I'd love to ask you

436

: 00:23:36

a question, but I know you're super busy.

437

: 00:23:38

So like if you don't

get to it, that's okay.

438

: 00:23:40

And.

439

: 00:23:41

I honestly, like, I feel so sad when

I read that 'cause I'm like, Aw.

440

: 00:23:45

Like, how do you know my life is so busy?

441

: 00:23:46

I don't want my life to be so busy.

442

: 00:23:48

I want balance.

443

: 00:23:49

I want freedom.

444

: 00:23:51

You know, I want joy.

445

: 00:23:52

I want peace.

446

: 00:23:53

And so if you've been here for

a while, you, you may, may have,

447

: 00:23:57

you maybe have seen what life has

looked like, um, at least from afar.

448

: 00:24:00

And so.

449

: 00:24:01

Thank you for your support, your

prayers, and just being along

450

: 00:24:04

with me every step of the way.

451

: 00:24:05

And also just thank you

for allowing me to share.

452

: 00:24:07

So, honestly, you know, I think that as

somebody who strives for greatness and

453

: 00:24:12

excellence and even perfection, it's

easy to try and just present the picture

454

: 00:24:17

Perfect, vision to the outside world.

455

: 00:24:19

So thank you for allowing me to

just be my real self and just kind

456

: 00:24:22

of share the ups and the downs

and the vulnerability of, yeah.

457

: 00:24:26

Me growing and learning and, you

know, striving for sainthood.

458

: 00:24:29

'cause that's, that's

what we're all here to do.

459

: 00:24:30

And we are not saints yet.

460

: 00:24:32

So that's all I have for now.

461

: 00:24:34

It's not goodbye, it's

just a little break.

462

: 00:24:37

But thank you for being here.

463

: 00:24:38

I love you guys and I'll talk to you soon.