34: Living with Hope and Joy this Advent | Beth Davis

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Hey, I'm your host, Mari Wagner,

and you're listening to the ever be

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Pull up a chair and listen in for

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and actionable steps on how to claim

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If you're a woman desiring to live

a Christ centered life in today's

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modern world, then this is for you.

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Welcome to Ever Be.

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Welcome back everybody today.

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We have a wonderful guest, uh, the

wonderful Beth Davis from blessed is she,

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uh, on the podcast to discuss the topic

of hope, which is so fitting for advent.

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So Beth, welcome to ever be.

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Hi, thank you so much for having me.

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I'm really, really overjoyed to be here.

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Yeah.

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Well, tell us a little

bit about what do you do?

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What are you about?

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Um, and share a little bit about blessed

as she, I'm sure so many of my listeners

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probably already love blessed as she,

but in case there's some who maybe

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it's new to them, can you just share a

little bit about what you do with them?

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Sure.

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Yeah.

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I'm Beth Davis.

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I'm the director of formation

for blessed as she, and I live

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in sunny Phoenix, Arizona.

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Um, and I love Jesus and it's my

joy to be able to share that love

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of Jesus and help women enter into

a personal and loving relationship

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with Jesus through our ministry.

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Um, so blessed is she

just celebrated 10 years.

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Um, kind of hard to believe I've been full

time about seven years and was a writer

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for maybe a year and a half before that.

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So, um, it feels like a lot of my adult

life has been poured into this ministry

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and to watch it grow and become, uh,

what God desires in many ways, kind

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of just a purification of what it's

always been, you know, has been, um,

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really a marvelous thing to watch.

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Um, yeah, so I, I took over book projects

and, and my title changed and I was able

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to begin to, um, form and really pray into

content just in the past couple of years.

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So this is the first advent devotional

that I, um, You know, worked on

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and spearheaded that project.

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So it's a real.

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Yeah, it's a moment I've been waiting

for, for a long time, because I've read

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this Advent devotional probably 10 times.

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Um, and it's, I'm just so eager for women

to read it for themselves, to pray with

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themselves, because it has changed me.

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Literally every time I read it, even

just preparing for this conversation,

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I'm like, I want to kind of refresh.

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And I was like converted all over again.

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It's really that powerful because of

the witness and, um, the beautiful

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charism of writing that Liz Kelly has.

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And she's the sole author

of this devotional.

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Beautiful.

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I love it.

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Well, let's get into it.

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I, you know, we said that the, the

theme of the devotional is hope

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and it's called a thrill of hope,

which I found very interesting.

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Like I don't really feel like

I pair, Hope with like it being

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like a, like a thrilling emotion.

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And so I really do want to just

ask you more about that theme.

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How does, um, how did

that theme come about?

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And like, what all does that theme

of a thrill of hope encompass?

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Why did you guys choose?

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Yeah, I'm sure you've made

this connection, but a

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thrill of hope is a lyric.

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From the Christmas hymn, Oh

Holy Night, A Thrill of Hope.

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I did not make that connection.

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No way!

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Yeah, that's where it came from, I guess.

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Yeah, A Thrill of Hope.

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Oh!

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The world rejoices.

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Oh, beautiful.

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Okay, I love that.

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Yeah.

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But I, I like that word, thrill.

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I think it's really evocative.

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Like, because, As you expressed, I

don't think we, our experience of

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hope is typically very thrilling, but

if you enter into that moment of the

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incarnation, you know, at the nativity

of our Lord, like it is so thrilling.

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There is kind of a swelling in our

hearts and Um, hope rises up, maybe

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even despite ourselves or despite our

circumstances, that things are going

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to be different because Jesus has come.

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And we wanted to capture that in the

title and with the content of this book.

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Oh, I love that.

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And I mean, hope is The theme we are

pressing into in the season of Advent

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anyway, so obviously it is very fitting.

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Um, so talk to me a little

bit more about that.

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Advent is a season of

anticipation and waiting.

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So how would you describe your

role of hope in truly preparing for

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that moment you're talking about?

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The birth of Christ, this

moment of nativity when we

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know that everything changes.

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Yeah, well, um, I'm sure your

listeners are familiar, but each week

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of the Advent season has a theme.

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And so we dedicate in the church an

entire week to the virtue of hope.

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But as the devotional really

gets into, we kind of have um, We

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have a misunderstanding of hope.

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Uh, at least for me, I can say I have

a complicated relationship with hope.

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And I think in many ways, that's

because we don't really know what it is.

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We have a more secular definition

of an experience of hope.

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We equate hope with, um, wishful

thinking or with everything kind of

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turning out the way that we want.

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And that's actually not the definition

of hope as the church describes

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it, as the saints have called it.

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written about it, that hope is a virtue.

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Um, in fact, it's one of the

three theological virtues.

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And in that sense, it is a gift.

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Uh, we are infused with hope.

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It's not something we work toward or

make happen or like think ourselves

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into, but that it comes to us divinely

from God himself, who is the source

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of all hope, who is hope himself.

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And so I, it was important.

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To me just for personally to have

kind of a Renewed and purified

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sense of like what is hope actually?

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Because that complicated relationship

I mentioned really has more to do with

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disappointment And discouragement than

it does with god And so I kind of wanted

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to like define the terms like what is

hope actually what is the role of hope?

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actually and just as we started,

um There's one other woman on our

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team who's Just loves the Lord.

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And we have a beautiful friendship and

we were just kind of talking through, you

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know, themes and like seeking the Lord, we

were just praying together on the phone.

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Like, God, what do you want?

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And this phrase, a thrill of hope, like.

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Came thrillingly to mind for me.

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Like this is it.

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We, I want to want to bridge that gap

between our experience of hope in the

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natural world and this supernatural

hope that really is thrilling.

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Oh my gosh.

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Yeah.

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That resonates so much with me.

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I think that I've learned a lot about

hope as well in the past few years.

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And I think that.

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It has been a confusing path because

I feel like normally, and especially

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in this Christmas season, we

equate the word hope with like joy.

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Like we see these paired

together so often.

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Hope, joy, and love, you know,

like how, how celebratory, how

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cheery hope, joy, and love.

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And when you're really in a

season where you're pressed.

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To hope and to really like, uh, like

you said, like rely on it being a gift

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because you come to a point where you

realize like, this isn't something

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that just comes naturally to us.

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It really is a gift received by the Lord.

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Then you start to wonder like, why is

it always paired with joy and love?

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And is it, is it always

really that joyful?

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So, um, can you just talk

to me a more about that?

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Just like, What has been your

experience of learning about hope

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and like, what does the Lord taught

you about what hope really is?

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Yeah.

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Wow.

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Great question.

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Um, I think for me more often I find

faith, hope, and love together, but almost

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like in a cliche way, like on a coffee

mug and it's like, Oh, that's sweet.

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Faith, hope, and love.

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Yeah.

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But really joy and joy is the same.

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We have this kind of saccharine,

sweet, understanding a surface level

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understanding of what these words mean.

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Joy is a gift of the Holy Spirit

or a fruit of the Holy Spirit.

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Faith, hope, and love are infused

virtues, like supernatural virtues.

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And so when we really get into

them, faith, hope, love, joy

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are actually pretty gritty.

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They're deeper than a feeling.

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They're on the level of choice,

um, really the level of our will.

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And Sometimes our will does not

line up with our experience.

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Certainly our feelings don't

line up with our experience.

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Um, a couple of years ago, I was in

the Holy land and I was at, um, the

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place of the visitation in Judea.

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And we were just visiting this

small chapel, which historically,

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traditionally is the place where

Mary encountered Elizabeth.

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And as you walk into this little

chapel, kind of beneath the church,

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Um, there are murals up all around the

chapel of that moment, and then the

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moments following, you know, Elizabeth

and John fleeing into the wilderness.

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But if you pay attention, when you

walk in, um, there are two murals

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kind of arched right over the

entryway, and you could almost miss

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them because they're really stark.

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One woman is, is dressed in purple.

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Her eyes are closed and she's

carrying a cross in one hand

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and a chalice in the other.

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And she's very placidly kind of

standing with her eyes closed,

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but she seems very peaceful.

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And on the other side is a woman

just draped in green in a barren

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desert and her eyes are wide open.

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And she, it's like, she's looking right

into your soul and her hands, are,

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are clasped and her feet are bare.

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And I, I just recognize them immediately

as faith and hope that this is

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really a personification of hope.

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It's like your eyes are wide open.

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Um, you're not ignoring the hard

things, but you have your gaze fixed

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on the Lord and your hope is in him.

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And that mean, that might mean you,

you have nothing, but you have hope.

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It really is.

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What it means is, is this deep

reliance on God's goodness and his

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reality with those hands clasped

and even like shoeless in a desert.

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Like, no, I choose to hope so that if

I'm honest for me personally, that's

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where hope really got a hold where

I'm like, I don't think I know what

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hope is because I don't feel that way.

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And I don't know that I even

want to feel that way, you know?

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Wow.

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That is really beautiful.

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I, uh, do you know what

the image is called?

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Is there a name for that?

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I would love to look it up.

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I've never found them, but I'll

send you the pictures if you want

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to put it like in your show notes.

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Yes.

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I think that would be so, so beautiful.

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I love that.

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Um, Okay.

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I do have more that I want to ask

specifically about this devotional.

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Um, I was through the description

and it was talking about how it

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kind of walks through the life

of different women in the Bible.

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And so it focuses on Eve,

Sarah, Ruth and Mary.

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So what do you feel like drew

you guys to these particular

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women as examples of hope?

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How do they reflect, um, facets

of hope in their stories?

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Yeah, well, I think we love scripture.

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It's, it's central to our mission

and our ministry at Blessed Issues.

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The core value for us is the irreplaceable

value of the word of God and really that

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we only come to know him and ourselves

through the His word through his, what

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he reveals about himself in his word.

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And it's the same for Liz.

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Liz Kelly has, um, she's

a spiritual director.

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She's a writer.

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She's just saturated in scripture.

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She like speaks just so naturally what her

understanding of the world and her life is

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all kind of through the lens of scripture.

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And so we knew like all of

our devotionals, we wanted

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it to be rooted in scripture.

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And I think if you don't, um, If you

don't root a conversation on hope in

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in the real practical lives of women,

you run the risk of it being that like

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saccharine sweet or theological, esoteric,

and it's like out there and abstract

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versus this is how it looks lived in a

real life, you know, in a woman's life.

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And so we looked primarily through the

Old Testament, um, but kind of wanting to

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capture because hope ultimately is about

like the revelation of Jesus Christ and

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in particular in the advent season, the

revelation of his life and our salvation.

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On Christmas Day.

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We wanted to see that

salvation history unfold.

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Um, we wanted to see hope unfold

through salvation history.

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And you can see in the lives

of these women that their hope.

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Hope grows, hope is purified, and

hope is lived more courageously and

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more confidently the closer we come.

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And so I think we can learn a lot

coming from, like, our first, you know,

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Eve, like, at the fall, the fall of

hope, really, um, she's lost her hope.

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In who God is and who he says he

is and can't we all relate to that?

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And then kind of the implications

of that I think too something that's

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really special about this devotional

is that you're getting women in

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different states of life So for example,

um, we'll take just sarah and ruth.

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So sarah is, is barren, but is married,

and that's such an ache for so many women.

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And then Ruth has been widowed,

and yet her story of God's ultimate

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provision and redemption of

that story is through marriage.

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So, there's kind of a lot of

ground covered in terms of

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the practical experience of

women who will be reading it.

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I love that.

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I love, um, when we're able

to take scripture and really

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apply it to our daily lives.

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And I think I love that you guys

went into the Old Testament.

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I think that's, uh, intimidating

to a lot of people to kind of

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like dive into the Old Testament.

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And I personally have wanted to learn

more about the women in the Bible and

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kind of more about what their stories are.

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So I'm excited to dive into this

one and, and just learn more from

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.

These women of scripture, you describe them as women on their way.

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That caught my eye.

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I, I, I just, I love the thought of that.

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So can you share more about

like, what does it mean to

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be a woman on, on your way?

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What does it mean to be

like a bearer of hope?

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Yes.

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Oh, I love that phrase too.

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To be honest, Mari, the whole introduction

just like moves me to my core.

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Every time I read it, the way Liz lays

out, First of all, her own relationship

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with hope, which is really compelling.

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Like she says, I'm full

to the brim with it.

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And that's something I did.

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It's something God has done for me.

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It's, it's.

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That alone gives hope that like,

I could be a woman of hope.

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I could, my hope could

be full to the brim.

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So much so that it's overflowing and now

I'm a bearer of hope to a weary world.

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And, and bring the joy of Jesus.

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The, the fulfilled hope of

our hearts that is God became

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man and heaven is open to us.

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Like, I, I want to, And I think

it's really important for us to

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be able to live with that kind of

hope and joy and openness so that

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other people experience it too.

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So, maybe that was the second part of

the question about, that's what it looks

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like to be a bearer of hope, but women

on the way, It's such a Liz Kelly way

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to phrase, to phrase that, and it really

captures something so beautiful about

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each one of those women in scripture.

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But I think even more than that, it's

hope for us because you and I, all of

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your listeners, we too are women on the

way, meaning that we're not there yet.

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This is a work in progress.

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Our hope.

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Amen.

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Amen.

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Is a work in progress and that's okay.

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Hope grows, um, the virtue of hope in

us grows as we seek the Lord and ask

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him to infuse us with that virtue,

because it's not about working harder.

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It's not about, um, it's not

about doing it on our own.

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And it's really a posture

like our lady of receiving.

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The hope that is already ours.

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I love that.

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And I love how you described it.

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Like it's almost like a journey.

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Like hope itself is a journey and it's

a place where you arrive and then, and

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then all of a sudden it moves and you

have to go back to it and find it again.

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And I think that's been my experience

in hope as well as like those are

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the places where you, the Lord

has given you this gift of hope.

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And you're like, Oh, I found it.

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This is what hope is like,

you know, and there almost is.

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A little bit of a, of a joy in that

even, even if it is amidst, um, waiting

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: 00:18:00

for an answered prayer, there's still

just like in hope, there's just like

313

: 00:18:04

the joy of knowing who Christ is and

knowing that like our hope is really

314

: 00:18:08

rooted because we know who he is and

that's who we're placing our trust in.

315

: 00:18:11

And that's why we're able to hope

because we know who is behind.

316

: 00:18:16

Um, just mm-hmm, everything really.

317

: 00:18:19

Um, but at the same time.

318

: 00:18:21

I think with anything in the spiritual

life, sometimes you feel like you

319

: 00:18:24

finally grasp something or you

overcame something or you got it.

320

: 00:18:27

And then a few years later, or a

few months later, you're, you're

321

: 00:18:30

back kind of in the same place.

322

: 00:18:32

And you're like, what happened?

323

: 00:18:34

I thought that I already knew what

hope was, you know, I thought I

324

: 00:18:36

already figured it out and you're,

and you're like relearning.

325

: 00:18:39

So I love that you

described it as a journey.

326

: 00:18:41

Cause I think it is.

327

: 00:18:41

And, and through different parts

of our life and different seasons

328

: 00:18:44

of our life, it may come and go.

329

: 00:18:47

And I feel like that's something

that maybe the devotional touches

330

: 00:18:49

on as well, of just like, Hope isn't

something that we can just grasp

331

: 00:18:52

onto a hundred percent of the time.

332

: 00:18:54

Sometimes it, um, sometimes it

flees and flourishes as you,

333

: 00:18:59

as it says in the devotional.

334

: 00:19:01

So can you share more about that?

335

: 00:19:02

Like what are some of the barriers we

feel like that come in between us and

336

: 00:19:08

really feeling this virtue of hope?

337

: 00:19:10

How can we overcome?

338

: 00:19:12

Yeah, I love that question.

339

: 00:19:15

And actually I'd love to just share

it in light of, of what you just

340

: 00:19:19

talked about, but it seems like.

341

: 00:19:22

We finally understand hope and we've like

kind of put a put a stake in the ground

342

: 00:19:27

like yes I'm gonna have hope i'm gonna

believe god and then suddenly it's like

343

: 00:19:32

wait what and I would where I think I

don't want to say challenge But actually

344

: 00:19:39

where I would encourage you and all of

us is that actually hope doesn't leave

345

: 00:19:44

but hope grows so you the hope that you

Have received from the Lord and that

346

: 00:19:51

you've believed in him for in certain

situations, um, in the words of C.

347

: 00:19:56

S.

348

: 00:19:56

Lewis, like further up and further in.

349

: 00:19:58

So then another situation comes up

and we need a fresh infusion of hope,

350

: 00:20:03

kind of like that daily manna for

the Israelites in the Old Testament.

351

: 00:20:06

They were fed yesterday.

352

: 00:20:08

That hope was enough for yesterday.

353

: 00:20:10

It didn't go away, but it's

not enough for the next day.

354

: 00:20:13

There's more and always

with the Lord, there's more.

355

: 00:20:16

So you have more hope than you

think, but we do have to keep seeking

356

: 00:20:21

the Lord because he just desires.

357

: 00:20:24

Even as I'm like explaining this,

I just have this sweet image of

358

: 00:20:27

like a little baby bird, you know?

359

: 00:20:30

And when it's been, um.

360

: 00:20:33

When it's been hatched, like without

its mother, maybe it's sick, like a

361

: 00:20:37

baby bird is fed, like with a dropper.

362

: 00:20:39

And that's kind of what

it's like with the Lord.

363

: 00:20:41

And I think most things with most

grace, it's like their little

364

: 00:20:47

stomachs can only handle so much.

365

: 00:20:50

And so God only expects of us.

366

: 00:20:53

As much hope as he's given us,

and then we have a new situation

367

: 00:20:57

there, there's a new need.

368

: 00:20:59

There's a new urgency

or fear in our lives.

369

: 00:21:02

Well, we need fresh hope for that.

370

: 00:21:04

So again, you have hope, you have lots of

hope, but there's even more with the Lord.

371

: 00:21:10

I love that.

372

: 00:21:11

The thought of that, of just, it's not

really that it goes away, but it's just.

373

: 00:21:15

You, you constantly like your heart

expands almost and is in need of

374

: 00:21:19

more like in the spiritual life.

375

: 00:21:20

I love what you said, like

further in and further up.

376

: 00:21:23

Is that what, is that the quote from C.

377

: 00:21:24

S.

378

: 00:21:25

Lewis?

379

: 00:21:25

Yeah, further up and further in.

380

: 00:21:27

Yeah, further up and further in.

381

: 00:21:29

Um, yeah.

382

: 00:21:29

And I mean, just like,

wow, that's so true.

383

: 00:21:31

Like the, the more we come to know

the Lord, the more we're expanded, the

384

: 00:21:36

more our faith is deepened, the more

our relationship with him is deepened.

385

: 00:21:39

And I loved also the analogy

of the little bird because it.

386

: 00:21:43

He's got to be fed by someone, right?

387

: 00:21:45

He's not going to seek the water

on himself because he can't yet.

388

: 00:21:49

And so that just as a reminder of like,

to be able to grow more in this hope,

389

: 00:21:53

to receive more of this hope, like we

have to be so closely fed by the Lord.

390

: 00:21:57

We have to be so closely seeking him.

391

: 00:21:59

Cause again, we talked about how

It's, it is a virtue and it is a gift.

392

: 00:22:04

Like it's truly a gift that

is received by the Lord.

393

: 00:22:07

And it's not like something we can

just manufacture ourself, which,

394

: 00:22:10

which means we have to be like closely

following him closely, like developing

395

: 00:22:15

that relationship with him and.

396

: 00:22:17

really continuing to

nurture that virtue of hope.

397

: 00:22:20

Um, and so a little bit about that.

398

: 00:22:23

Like, especially I feel like

when we're feeling distant, maybe

399

: 00:22:25

we're feeling distant from God,

maybe we're feeling discouraged.

400

: 00:22:28

Like what are some practical ways that

maybe we can share with our listeners

401

: 00:22:31

of how to nurture that virtue of hope?

402

: 00:22:37

Goodness.

403

: 00:22:38

Yeah.

404

: 00:22:38

There's so many thoughts coming

to me because the truth is we

405

: 00:22:43

need hope every single day.

406

: 00:22:45

We don't only need hope for these.

407

: 00:22:48

I mean, I don't know if you're

like me, but like hope in my

408

: 00:22:52

experience for many years was around

one thing and it was vocation.

409

: 00:22:56

I didn't really see hope as relating to

Just the ins and outs of my daily life.

410

: 00:23:02

But that was again, a narrow, a

limited view, a human view of hope.

411

: 00:23:07

Um, it was really more in line

with that definition of like,

412

: 00:23:10

I want this thing to happen.

413

: 00:23:13

Not actually what the virtue of hope is.

414

: 00:23:16

So, um,

415

: 00:23:19

yeah, I, I would say, first of all,

and this is probably so simple.

416

: 00:23:26

Many of us don't even think about it.

417

: 00:23:28

We have to ask for the virtue of hope.

418

: 00:23:31

We have to ask the Lord to give us hope.

419

: 00:23:33

And there's nothing wrong with

saying my hope is really weak.

420

: 00:23:37

Like I glory and saying to the

Lord pretty much every day.

421

: 00:23:41

I'm so weak.

422

: 00:23:42

I'm so little.

423

: 00:23:44

I'm a mess.

424

: 00:23:45

And that's not something to be ashamed

about that because that place of

425

: 00:23:48

poverty is actually a place of capacity

where God can come and fill us with

426

: 00:23:54

what we need, give us what we need.

427

: 00:23:56

So to just say, I need hope.

428

: 00:23:58

I don't have any hope.

429

: 00:23:59

And live.

430

: 00:24:00

Very beautifully again in

this like opening epistle.

431

: 00:24:03

I just love that she called the

introduction and opening epistle because

432

: 00:24:07

it's a letter from her heart to ours.

433

: 00:24:11

She extends her hope in the same

way that God gives hope as a gift.

434

: 00:24:16

She speaks about how we're

connected as a body of Christ.

435

: 00:24:20

And because she's full to the brim

with hope, we can borrow hers.

436

: 00:24:25

And so I've, I've prayed that.

437

: 00:24:27

And actually the Lord even.

438

: 00:24:29

Um kind of calibrated that a little

for me because I remember after reading

439

: 00:24:33

this I was just very Hungry for hope

and like convicted that my hope was

440

: 00:24:38

really natural and human and limited And

I remember thinking like yeah, I want

441

: 00:24:43

to take her up on that thought I want

to borrow some of her hope and then I

442

: 00:24:46

thought wait a second I could, you're

telling me I could borrow the hope of the

443

: 00:24:51

Blessed Virgin Mary who has perfect hope.

444

: 00:24:55

So I started praying in that way too.

445

: 00:24:57

So, I would say, like, at a

baseline, the best and simplest

446

: 00:25:02

thing that we can do is ask God.

447

: 00:25:04

Like, I don't have a lot of hope.

448

: 00:25:06

Um, Please give me hope.

449

: 00:25:09

Infuse me with hope.

450

: 00:25:10

And then I would say related to that

is to be honest in prayer and to say my

451

: 00:25:17

hope is lacking because, um, I'm having

a hard time hoping God because I'm mad

452

: 00:25:23

at you because I feel like you let me

down because this person let me down

453

: 00:25:27

because I'm still waiting for this.

454

: 00:25:29

Um, so that honesty in prayer

as well, just kind of opening up

455

: 00:25:35

when we open up the conversation,

really we're opening up our hearts.

456

: 00:25:39

That's, that's the gift of vulnerability

and, and God comes in not only with

457

: 00:25:44

hope because he's not primarily

about solving our problems like, Oh,

458

: 00:25:48

you're in pain, here's some hope.

459

: 00:25:49

He answers with himself and he is hope,

uh, so hope comes, but he's coming first

460

: 00:25:56

and foremost to be one with us, to be

in relationship with us, to comfort us

461

: 00:26:01

with his very presence, with his spirit.

462

: 00:26:04

Um, and then I would say, too, not just

because the book is really all about

463

: 00:26:11

Scripture and walking us through the story

of salvation history through the lens of

464

: 00:26:16

hope, but I think hope, like most things,

is a beam throughout all of Scripture.

465

: 00:26:22

And so anytime, You pick up God's word

and you have an intention or a desire

466

: 00:26:29

and you begin to read scripture through

the lens of hope, the Holy Spirit

467

: 00:26:33

will unveil connections, stories, um,

versus he'll highlight words for you

468

: 00:26:42

to help bolster and build that hope

again, the hope that you already have,

469

: 00:26:47

but grace builds on nature, right?

470

: 00:26:49

As the church says, so we

may have a very natural.

471

: 00:26:52

Sense of what hope is and god says, okay,

let's level that up And I think that's

472

: 00:26:57

what scripture does it elevates it because

god's word is living and active It's

473

: 00:27:01

affecting something in me as I read it.

474

: 00:27:04

Gosh.

475

: 00:27:05

Yeah, that is so beautiful I so resonate

with just that honesty and prayer and

476

: 00:27:09

just really do um Just like bury bury

yourself to the lord and just be so real,

477

: 00:27:16

you know, and I think a lot of times we

You know We shy away from that and we feel

478

: 00:27:21

like either the Lord, you know, doesn't

want to hear that, you know, doesn't

479

: 00:27:25

want to hear our appointments or, um,

or, or, or that it's just rude to do so.

480

: 00:27:31

And I think like, there's obviously

a way to be respectful to the Lord

481

: 00:27:35

while still really just honestly

and blatantly sharing, um, whatever

482

: 00:27:39

it is that it's on your heart.

483

: 00:27:40

And even like, just like desperately

asking like, Lord, like, Come to me as

484

: 00:27:45

hope, please, you know, come fill me.

485

: 00:27:47

Yeah.

486

: 00:27:47

Um, I think one more thing

that I would yeah, go ahead.

487

: 00:27:52

Yeah.

488

: 00:27:53

Well, I was just going to say,

I actually think it's respectful

489

: 00:27:58

to be honest with the Lord.

490

: 00:28:00

Um, even in our more unpleasant

emotions, you know, we might be

491

: 00:28:06

afraid of coming as ungrateful.

492

: 00:28:09

Um, we might kind of know in

the depths of us, like I, I

493

: 00:28:12

don't really have this right.

494

: 00:28:14

I, I have a sense, like, I know who

God is, I know that he's good, but he

495

: 00:28:19

doesn't feel very good, so instead I'm

going to pretend, like, and there's

496

: 00:28:24

something to be said for making an

active faith and, like, cooperating with

497

: 00:28:28

the grace, making an assent to what we

know to be true, but I actually think

498

: 00:28:35

It moves God's heart when we bring

him our unpleasant emotions because

499

: 00:28:42

what we're saying to him is I trust.

500

: 00:28:46

I trust this relationship enough

that I can be honest with you.

501

: 00:28:51

Even when it's ugly, even

when I'm a mess, I trust.

502

: 00:28:55

That your commitment to me, that

you're not going to leave just

503

: 00:28:59

because I'm angry or I'm grateful

or because I don't understand.

504

: 00:29:04

So I think it's profoundly

respectful actually to be honest

505

: 00:29:08

with God in all of its forms.

506

: 00:29:11

Yeah.

507

: 00:29:12

I so second that.

508

: 00:29:13

I love that.

509

: 00:29:14

The other thing I was going to say

that came to mind as we were talking

510

: 00:29:17

about like, what can be helpful

for someone that's, you know, Um,

511

: 00:29:21

just like struggling to find hope.

512

: 00:29:23

Um, I think something that's

been helpful for me too.

513

: 00:29:25

And it's funny that I talk about this

in the season of Advent, but it's

514

: 00:29:28

honestly praying, um, post crucifixion.

515

: 00:29:31

And so, I mean, we can pray with the

nativity and be like, okay, the Lord

516

: 00:29:35

is born and there's just this hope.

517

: 00:29:37

And you just imagine the people then

like, there's this hope of like the

518

: 00:29:40

Messiah and like, It's almost hoping

the unknown, like they know they were

519

: 00:29:43

promised a messiah, but they're not

really sure how that's supposed to play

520

: 00:29:46

out and how they're supposed to be saved.

521

: 00:29:49

Um, but we know the story.

522

: 00:29:51

So we, it's like, like I said,

like, we know who we're hoping and

523

: 00:29:55

we know what we're hoping and truly

we're hoping in the resurrection.

524

: 00:30:00

Like, we, we see, we, we know

the story of the Lord is born.

525

: 00:30:03

He goes through his ministry

goes through the passion.

526

: 00:30:05

He's crucified.

527

: 00:30:07

He goes into the tomb and then he

rises and something that I feel like

528

: 00:30:10

the Lord always promises us, right?

529

: 00:30:13

Is that there is always glory

behind the cross because

530

: 00:30:15

there's always a resurrection.

531

: 00:30:17

And so, in those moments, when we find

a lot of difficulty in hoping might be

532

: 00:30:22

those moments where we just feel like.

533

: 00:30:24

Either we know the Lord is here

and we just don't really know

534

: 00:30:27

what the, what the plan is.

535

: 00:30:29

We don't really know how it's going to go.

536

: 00:30:30

It's hard to find hope.

537

: 00:30:31

Or maybe you're in, um, you're relating

to the Lord in the crucifixion where

538

: 00:30:35

like, you feel like you're laying your

life down and you're not really sure.

539

: 00:30:39

Maybe like, like why, right?

540

: 00:30:40

Like why this crosses in your life, or

maybe you're just in the tomb and you're

541

: 00:30:44

waiting and you're really like waiting

for, uh, yeah, for the Lord to, to, to

542

: 00:30:49

bring you your answered prayer or to just

show up in your life in different ways,

543

: 00:30:54

but when we hold on to the resurrection,

I feel like that's, that to me has been so

544

: 00:31:00

helpful because that is the Lord, right?

545

: 00:31:02

That is the hope of the Lord of like,

post this cross, there is a resurrection.

546

: 00:31:07

And I think that.

547

: 00:31:08

It's almost like, it's funny to

bring it up while we're talking

548

: 00:31:11

about Advent and the Lord being born.

549

: 00:31:13

But in the end, I mean, you, in the

beginning, you talked about like

550

: 00:31:15

this, this whole salvation history

and like, how blessed are we that

551

: 00:31:19

we like, we have the full picture.

552

: 00:31:20

Um, at least this is first coming

and how that played out and the

553

: 00:31:24

promise that we have of a resurrection

in our life too, and that we can

554

: 00:31:28

hold on to hope through that.

555

: 00:31:32

Wow.

556

: 00:31:32

I'm, I'm really moved by that.

557

: 00:31:35

You're introducing something to

me because I think when we look at

558

: 00:31:39

salvation history, We're looking

at it from a human perspective.

559

: 00:31:43

So we're watching it unfold linearly,

but God is outside of space and time.

560

: 00:31:48

So that little baby born in the

nativity is the same one life that

561

: 00:31:55

suffers and dies and is resurrected.

562

: 00:31:57

And so I almost feel like.

563

: 00:31:59

You have really discovered something

564

: 00:32:05

powerful.

565

: 00:32:05

I don't, I'm kind of at a loss for

words because what you're suggesting

566

: 00:32:08

is, is praying with hope fulfilled.

567

: 00:32:13

So when we're struggling to hope,

we actually do get to, this is

568

: 00:32:17

so cheesy, but it's like we do

get to skip to the good part.

569

: 00:32:20

Like, we do know the end of the story.

570

: 00:32:23

There is a fulfillment of all of our hope.

571

: 00:32:26

At two.

572

: 00:32:27

And again, because we're on earth and

in space and time, even that is like a

573

: 00:32:32

shadow, that's, um, a precursor, right.

574

: 00:32:36

Of the beatific vision, but we know

that it's true because he rose.

575

: 00:32:40

And so to meditate on hope fulfilled

when we're struggling with hope, I

576

: 00:32:44

think is a really beautiful practice.

577

: 00:32:47

Well, thank you.

578

: 00:32:48

That truly is just the Holy

spirit in my prayer life.

579

: 00:32:51

I'm glad I rested with you.

580

: 00:32:53

Hopefully that's something that.

581

: 00:32:55

Yeah, we can all take away and

continue to pray with, but, um,

582

: 00:32:59

yeah, I guess just to wrap it up.

583

: 00:33:00

Do you have any other words of

encouragement for our listeners as

584

: 00:33:03

they enter into this season of Advent?

585

: 00:33:05

And, um, really, how can they

practically invite Christ to

586

: 00:33:08

restore their hope in this season?

587

: 00:33:12

Oh, wow.

588

: 00:33:14

Yeah, you know, I just not, I, I'm

always a little shy to say this,

589

: 00:33:22

but the truth is I want every single

woman to read this Advent devotional

590

: 00:33:26

because I know how it changed my life.

591

: 00:33:29

It changed my relationship with Jesus.

592

: 00:33:31

It changed my relationship with

hope because of the anointing on

593

: 00:33:35

Liz's life and, um, the courage.

594

: 00:33:39

that she exudes.

595

: 00:33:41

Liz Kelly wrote this Advent devotional

while she was in the midst of chemotherapy

596

: 00:33:47

for a second round of breast cancer.

597

: 00:33:50

And so for for Liz, she called

it her chemo recovery project.

598

: 00:33:55

And she speaks about how the word actually

affected in her what she wrote about.

599

: 00:34:00

He leveled up her hope.

600

: 00:34:02

As she wrote about it and that the power

of that comes through on every page of

601

: 00:34:08

this devotional, she lived it first.

602

: 00:34:11

And she said to me recently, like,

if this Advent devotional was just

603

: 00:34:15

for me, it would have been enough.

604

: 00:34:16

Like it has that eternal significance for.

605

: 00:34:21

And now for mine, so we're two for two.

606

: 00:34:25

And I hear that again and again from women

who have already read it, who we shared

607

: 00:34:30

the devotional with because honestly,

I just couldn't keep it to myself.

608

: 00:34:35

Because I think no matter if you're

aware of a poverty of hope in your

609

: 00:34:41

life or not, the truth is we have one,

because we're, we live in a fallen

610

: 00:34:46

world, and we desperately need help

to hope, and the way, the stories

611

: 00:34:51

that Liz told us, tells, um, not only

from her own life, but she shares, um,

612

: 00:34:57

the stories of other women in her own

life, women in scripture, stories from

613

: 00:35:02

spiritual direction from her own prayer.

614

: 00:35:05

There's so much in here about identity.

615

: 00:35:07

For me, it was a great, um,

relearning that hope is about

616

: 00:35:14

everything and hope is for everything.

617

: 00:35:18

So particularly, I think as I was

preparing for For this conversation

618

: 00:35:22

and revisiting it, I really felt the

Lord highlight, um, just his desire.

619

: 00:35:28

To deepen our understanding of

our embracing of our identity

620

: 00:35:35

as, as his beloved daughters.

621

: 00:35:37

And I think even, even as I say that,

I know we can kind of be numb to that

622

: 00:35:42

language, but until we know, like in

every cell of our body and, you know,

623

: 00:35:48

in the depths of our bones that we

belong to him and that he loves us.

624

: 00:35:54

Um, we still have, we still have

further to go, you know, so yeah, I

625

: 00:36:00

just particularly for someone who is

not only kind of obviously in need of,

626

: 00:36:07

or struggling with this idea of what

hope is, but for wherever you are on

627

: 00:36:13

the spiritual journey, I would encourage

you to embrace this need of hope again,

628

: 00:36:18

because we have those weekly themes

in Advent, um, and even though it's.

629

: 00:36:23

It's kind of a slower season.

630

: 00:36:25

We understand that the truth is it does

move quite fast between those four themes.

631

: 00:36:30

And so I think taking this time

with a single author to just

632

: 00:36:34

prayerfully focus on this theme of

hope, my relationship with hope, my

633

: 00:36:40

relationship with hope himself, I think.

634

: 00:36:44

Yeah, we'll change every,

every woman's heart.

635

: 00:36:46

I love it.

636

: 00:36:48

I'm excited to go through it myself.

637

: 00:36:50

Oh, good.

638

: 00:36:52

Me too.

639

: 00:36:53

Me too.

640

: 00:36:53

And I'm just so glad that we were

able to have this conversation.

641

: 00:36:57

Um, just cause like I said at

the beginning, I feel like hope

642

: 00:37:00

is, is so elusive sometimes.

643

: 00:37:01

And it's a little bit looked over

as to like what it truly is or, um,

644

: 00:37:05

almost seems like a fluffy word.

645

: 00:37:06

Sometimes when really.

646

: 00:37:08

You get into it and

there's density in that.

647

: 00:37:10

It is not a fluffy word at all.

648

: 00:37:12

So, um, thank you for coming

on and chatting with us and

649

: 00:37:15

helping us grow in this virtue.

650

: 00:37:18

Where can we find this devotional

more about you and Blessed Is She?

651

: 00:37:23

Oh, thank you so much for having me.

652

: 00:37:25

It truly is my joy to,

Talk about the Lord.

653

: 00:37:29

Talk about this devotional.

654

: 00:37:31

Um, so it's been my joy.

655

: 00:37:32

Thank you.

656

: 00:37:33

Um, You can find Blessed Is She Anywhere

and everywhere online blessedishe.

657

: 00:37:39

net or on any social media platform.

658

: 00:37:42

I'd love to connect with you In fact

this year this advent we're offering even

659

: 00:37:45

virtual small groups If you like want

to go through this with someone which I

660

: 00:37:48

would highly recommend Um, whether that's

just texting a girlfriend, doing the

661

: 00:37:53

devotional with your small group, um, but

to kind of go again, go all in on hope

662

: 00:37:59

in the context of community will deepen

the graces and multiply them for others.

663

: 00:38:05

Beautiful.

664

: 00:38:06

I'm so happy to hear about

those virtual small groups.

665

: 00:38:08

That's something I talk about

all the time at communities.

666

: 00:38:11

So needed in the journey of faith.

667

: 00:38:12

So highly recommend looking into those.

668

: 00:38:15

Well, thank you so much, Beth.

669

: 00:38:16

This has been such a

wonderful conversation.

670

: 00:38:19

Oh, gosh.

671

: 00:38:20

Thank you so much.