63: Exactly How Satan is Attacking Women in Today's Culture | Emily Wilson

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Hey, I am your host, Mari Wagner,

and you're listening to The Ever Be

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Podcast where Faith Meets Lifestyle.

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I'm so excited you're here.

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Whether you're a new listener

or a longtime follower, I know

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there's something here for you.

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Pull up a chair and listen in for

insightful, real life conversations and

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actionable steps on how to claim the.

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Full life God created you for.

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If you're a woman desiring to live

a Christ-centered life in today's

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modern world, then this is for you.

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Welcome to ever be.

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mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343:

Welcome back to Ever Be Everybody.

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Today we have a friend Emily

Wilson on the podcast today.

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I'm sure a lot of you know who

she is and love her just as I do.

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So we're so excited to

have you today, Emily.

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Welcome.

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emily_1_05-30-2025_092843:

Thank you so much.

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It's great to talk with all of

you out there, wherever you're

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listening, all over the world.

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mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343:

Can you tell us a little bit about

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who you are and what you do, even

though I'm sure a lot of my listeners

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probably already know you in some form.

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emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: Yeah, it's a

joy to be able to walk alongside women.

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So for many years, um, I've been in

ministry with women, started as a high

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school teacher at an all girls school,

and the last 14 years has just been

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walking alongside women in ministry.

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I.

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The greatest joy of my life is

listening to women and having

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women share their stories with me.

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So I'm a wife, I'm a mother to three

little ones here in California.

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I was raised in Los Angeles.

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My husband is from the Netherlands.

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We dated long distance.

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Shout out to all you long distance Gs

and guy sat there if you're listening.

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Um, and it's just my joy to love

the Lord and share that love of the

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Lord in hopes that other people.

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Well, you know, just come to

know how much he loves them.

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That's the, the joy of

my heart and my life.

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mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343:

Yeah, I feel like you just, you

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know the feminine heart really

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emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: Mm.

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mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343: the

Lord has given you grace to speak

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into the feminine heart in a really.

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Gentle and loving, but also firm way.

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Like you're that big sister that's

like, you need to know the truth.

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And I'm gonna tell you the

truth 'cause you deserve it.

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And so we all need that and I'm really

excited for our conversation today.

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'cause it's all about

the theme of your new

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emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: Mm-hmm.

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mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343: Ste.

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Sincerely, stone Heart, it's written in

the theme of the screw tape letters where.

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is writing to his little

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emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: Mm-hmm.

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mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343:

about how to attack and destroy women.

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How lovely.

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emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: Yes.

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Right.

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It is lovely.

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It's very intense.

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But as you know, as we know, um, there's

a spiritual reality happening in our

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lives today, and the devil wants to

discourage us, steal, kill, and destroy.

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He wants that for all of us.

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And so that's where, um, you know,

my heart was born out of this book in

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seeing women over these 14 years and

them sharing their hearts with me.

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Just dumping their hearts out on

retreats and at events and all over

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the place, um, about the ways the enemy

wants to, and, and does try to steal,

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kill, and destroy our hearts as women.

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So thanks for reading the book.

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I'm so grateful to be

here to talk about it.

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mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343:

Yeah, totally.

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Let's just dive in.

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What inspired you to write sincerely,

stone Heartd, and specifically in

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that format that it is written,

the Demon to Demon Letters format.

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How did writing it in that

perspective, like how did that reveal

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more to you about the spiritual

battle that we're facing as women

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emily_1_05-30-2025_092843:

Yeah, absolutely.

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So the, the thing about the screw

tape letters, you don't have to have

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read the screw tape letters in order

to read sincerely stone heartd.

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It's just the premise.

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And I walk you through the

premise and the introduction.

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The, the screw tape letters really

changed the way people see in the

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sense of when CS Lewis wrote that,

people read it and they thought.

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I have never thought about it this way.

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I have never thought about the, the very

detail oriented nature of the way that the

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devil is trying to pull me away from God.

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So for many dozens of years, people have

been been writing what I would call screw

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tape, sequels their own take on this

premise, out of their own lens, out of

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their own faith, out of their own life.

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And mine specifically was

these 14 years of seeing.

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How discouraged women are, how fearful

women are, how sorrowful women are.

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We're so beautiful, made in the image and

likeness of God and I've, I've walked with

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thousands of women for all these years

looking at their faces, thinking, oh my

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gosh, I wish you knew how loved you are.

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Why?

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Like, how are women so discouraged?

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In the pandemic.

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I was sitting at home a lot.

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I was pregnant with my second son.

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Um, and I really got to thinking it.

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It really was born outta that.

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I really got to thinking,

what is this all about?

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Like, why, and I knew, but when I

started to unpack it this way, I thought,

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man, what if I just, you know, started

writing down the lies that I've heard

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women believe for all these years.

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So I started writing them down.

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All these papers all over the place.

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Um, and it just came to be and I thought,

man, I should just, just try my hand

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at writing it like that to see if that

lights something up in my own heart.

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Um, and, you know, and maybe reveals

something for women about the truth.

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So I started writing and writing

and writing and it changed.

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My whole life seeing it in this way, I,

I have, I have never seen things more

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clearly ever in my whole entire life

about the ways the devil hates us and

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wants us to live in fear and sorrow.

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And I hope that comes across in the

book for women like you who read

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it, who think, oh my goodness, I

have never even thought about this.

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mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343: Yeah.

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And I think when you read it, a lot is

revealed and it makes sense because women

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are the crown of creation, the heart

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emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: Mm-hmm.

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mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343: home.

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And if the evil one can destroy

her and her identity and bring her

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down, I mean, there's such a ripple

effect that happens from that.

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Like the family is destroyed,

like, you know what I mean?

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Like

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emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: Yes,

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mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343:

is destroyed from that.

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So, um.

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Yeah.

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So much is revealed and so important

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emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: yes.

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mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343: from

that book, what do you feel like some of

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the most common or subtle lies are that

the enemy is speaking to women today?

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emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: Hmm,

that's a really good question.

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Um, I think the, one of the big ones

and social media comes to play, you

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know, and a big part in this is.

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That other women have so much more of a

purpose than you and that you like all

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of these women, they were made to shine.

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They were made to, you know, make big

waves in the world and you are useless and

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dumb and have nothing to offer the world.

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I have heard this from

so many women who think.

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God gave me nothing to

share with the world.

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I don't have any gifts.

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Like look at all these other women

and they're just so sorrowful and

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they feel so broken about that.

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And life isn't about being like, oh, I'm

so great and God gave me so many gifts.

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It's good when we recognize what our

gifts are and we can say those out loud.

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This is a charism, right,

or a gift God has given me.

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But the enemy wants women to believe

I have nothing to offer the world

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because women were each of us.

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A sister named Sister Faustina.

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She said it on a retreat once.

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She said, you reflect

a piece of God's glory.

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No one else ever will.

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And the Lord wants us to live like that.

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And the enemy wants us to say, I have

nothing to offer the world, because

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what we have to offer, the world

is God's glory alive inside of us.

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And if the enemy can silence that, or

dampen that, or destroy that altogether,

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what an accomplishment for him.

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What an accomplishment for him.

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So I feel like that is one of the

subtleties of women thinking, man, oh man.

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Everybody else has something to share.

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Not like share like we do online, but

just like share in your life and your

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family in the world, and I've got

nothing so that you don't share the

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glory God gave you with the world.

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Do you feel like, what do you feel

like is the most subtle lie in your

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ministry with women that you see

women believing and maybe living

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from a place of in their hearts and

in their choices and in their lives?

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mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343:

Yeah, honestly that they're not

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enough and I think that that just, I

mean, relates to what you're saying.

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'cause You know, as women, like I.

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We fall into comparison so often.

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So if we do see, you know,

other women like that, we think,

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wow, they have all these gifts,

they're doing all these things.

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And look at me here.

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You know, you fall into the,

well, maybe I'm just not enough.

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Maybe I'm just not good enough.

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Um, and I think another light too

is like I, that they can't hear God

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emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: Good one.

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mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343:

This, uh, beautiful ministry that

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we get to experience at Seek online

through, um, incredible women that we

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look up to in our spiritual journey.

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It's easy to look at them

and be like they hear God.

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have all these insightful things to say.

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They have, you know, all these

beautiful truths that God has revealed

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to them to speak to other women.

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And here I am, you know, as the listener,

like, what do, how do I hear God?

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I don't hear God.

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He might not be with me.

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emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: Um,

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mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343:

And we know, and we know that that's

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not true, and we know that the Lord

speaks to all of us in such different

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emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: yeah.

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mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343:

reaches us in such different ways

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and uses different people to.

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Carry out his plan of salvation

in, in different ways.

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Like we all make up the body of Christ and

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emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: Yeah.

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mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343:

there's that thing, right?

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Like the body needs both the

hand and the feet and the head.

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We need all the parts and

they don't look alike.

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They don't all have the same mission,

but without one, the body's incomplete.

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emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: Absolutely.

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That's a big one.

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And I talk about that a lot in the book.

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And one of the biggest reasons why we

think we can't hear God is because we

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have noise in our lives all the time.

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And I know your listeners out there, you

are listening to this, and I pray that

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it edifies you and it encourages you and

it supports you on your faith journey.

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But so often in our lives we have

needless noise, noise that we do not need.

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Noise that does not edify us.

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Noise that does not support, um,

positivity in our lives and encouragement.

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In the book, I talk about that lie, and

it was so mind boggling for me because

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I've been in that place, like you say

of I can't hear God, how do I hear him?

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Yet my life is filled with noise.

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And I say this line in the book, when

most of the noise is silent, she won't

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realize how truly deafening it is.

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Because how often are we

watching reels, right?

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With no sound on?

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How often are we like just like

reading articles, reading news,

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reading all these things, and ingesting

all this noise just with our eyes.

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We're looking at all these videos and

we're looking at all these things.

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I.

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No wonder we think we can't hear God.

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All of this stuff is cluttering our minds.

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So the lie that I can't hear God,

if that's something you believe

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out there, that Mari has, you know,

talked about here, ask yourself.

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What am I doing to change that?

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If anything?

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What am I doing to try to hear God more?

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Am I even spending time in silence?

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Am I even going to the adoration

chapel just to sit with the

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Lord for 15 minutes straight?

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Not to look at anything, not to

think about anything, but just to be.

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See what happens.

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You know those lies when

we say, I believe this lie.

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Okay, what are you doing about it?

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How are you fighting back against it?

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That lie is so prevalent, and I think it's

such a good one to identify for women.

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mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343: Yeah, and

you, you mentioned that too, about how the

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enemy just wants women to be distracted,

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emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: Mm-hmm.

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mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343: confused,

like bombarded and I mean, everything you

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said, I think we all can relate to that.

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And it's crazy to think that what

seems like should be a simple solution.

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Silence.

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Right?

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Do nothing.

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Consume nothing.

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Hear, not just sit in the presence of

God is actually such a challenge and even

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like terrifying for some people to face.

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Because once we actually, I mean

I've experienced it in my own life,

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when we actually leave room for

silence in a space where we feel.

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Like we are believing lies.

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Like what are we gonna hear?

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What's gonna come up?

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What is gonna be revealed in our

hearts that we're gonna have to face?

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That's a lot harder than being like,

Yeah, something doesn't feel good,

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but I'm just gonna like, numb it out

with a doom scroll or binge watch or

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live through someone else vicariously

because I'm trying to ignore everything

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going on, um, in my own life.

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So.

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From your advice, you know, and your

heart that you see and love women

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with, how can we practically guard

against that in our everyday lives?

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emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: so in my

house we call it peace and quiet.

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I, it's one of my main priorities.

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I have a couple of really strong,

main priorities with my children, and

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I know some of your listeners are.

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Mothers and some of them are not.

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But in with my own children,

I prioritize peace and quiet.

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And I give them, I typically give them

the option, like if we're driving in

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the car, um, I'll say, do you want some

music or do you want peace and quiet?

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And so many times they say,

I want peace and quiet.

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Both of them.

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My boys are six four.

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And at home if someone is, you know,

wants to listen to music or whatever,

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and the other one says, I really

want peace and quiet right now.

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That person takes precedence.

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We are like, peace and quiet

is the most, one of the most

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important things in our house.

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So if someone's heart desires that they

trump everything, they trump everybody

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who wants to listen to music or anything

like that because it's so important.

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So that's my question for women.

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And there's, you know, a lot of.

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Ways that people do this.

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Like Edith Stein says, the first

hour of your morning belongs to God.

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Right.

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And to, to center everything there.

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And before I had children, I could do

that, which was such a beautiful thing to

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give the first hour of my morning to God.

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I give it in a different way now

by making cereal and cutting fruit

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and all those things, but in the

peace and quiet way, you know?

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And so my question, you know.

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For women would be, how are you

prioritizing peace and quiet in your life?

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And are you, are you

prioritizing it at all?

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And yes, like Mari said, it's, it,

it, you know, uncomfortable feelings

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come up and things you don't want to

think about come up in that peace and

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: 00:14:03

quiet when those things come up, give

it to the Lord right away, Lord Jesus,

298

: 00:14:06

I didn't even wanna think about this.

299

: 00:14:07

And right now I'm gonna give it to you.

300

: 00:14:09

Instead of scrolling or eating or

watching or whatever it is, Lord

301

: 00:14:13

Jesus, when these things come up,

make a very specific pointed effort.

302

: 00:14:19

When uncomfortable things come up,

memories, whatever it is, it could be

303

: 00:14:22

so many things, hand it over to him.

304

: 00:14:24

Say, Jesus, I don't

wanna think about this.

305

: 00:14:26

I'm going to give it to you.

306

: 00:14:27

Right?

307

: 00:14:27

And let him, if you're continuing

to think about it, let him be there

308

: 00:14:31

as you think about these things

and face these things in your life.

309

: 00:14:34

Does that make sense?

310

: 00:14:36

mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343:

Yeah, I love that piece of advice.

311

: 00:14:37

I love the immediacy of it.

312

: 00:14:39

Like as soon as we recognize that, or

a memory or a, a feeling that is not of

313

: 00:14:44

emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: Mm-hmm.

314

: 00:14:44

mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343:

like comes up, give that to the

315

: 00:14:46

Lord instead of letting it linger.

316

: 00:14:48

'cause that's what the evil wants to

317

: 00:14:49

emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: Mm-hmm.

318

: 00:14:49

mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343: let it

linger, let it fester, let it take root.

319

: 00:14:52

And the more you think about it, the

more you're like, maybe this is true.

320

: 00:14:54

Maybe this is who I am.

321

: 00:14:56

So that immediacy of like, oh,

that's, that's not the Lord's voice.

322

: 00:15:00

I'm gonna give it back.

323

: 00:15:01

I'm gonna give it

324

: 00:15:01

emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: Mm-hmm.

325

: 00:15:02

mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343:

That's gotta be.

326

: 00:15:03

emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: Yes.

327

: 00:15:04

Immediacy immediately.

328

: 00:15:07

And that's, you know, the whole premise of

the book is wanting to fight back against

329

: 00:15:11

the, the lies of the enemy immediately.

330

: 00:15:13

Right?

331

: 00:15:14

And the lies of the enemy aren't

always like memories that come up or

332

: 00:15:17

things that we're struggling with.

333

: 00:15:18

That's not always the case, but that

immediacy of always going to the Lord.

334

: 00:15:24

Everything in everything my,

all my instant response, right?

335

: 00:15:28

That's what the saints

showed us so beautifully.

336

: 00:15:31

And I think that the Saints

had this internal position

337

: 00:15:33

of, in all things, right?

338

: 00:15:34

Really believing that scripture

Apart from him, I can do nothing.

339

: 00:15:38

Um, really just being there in that

instantaneous, give everything to

340

: 00:15:43

Jesus, invite Jesus into everything.

341

: 00:15:46

Woo.

342

: 00:15:47

That'll change your life.

343

: 00:15:48

mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343:

That will change your life.

344

: 00:15:50

I think some listeners may be hearing

this section right now and just kind

345

: 00:15:53

of wonder like, okay, I don't even

know how to identify that though.

346

: 00:15:56

Like, I don't even know.

347

: 00:15:57

I can't do the immediate, you know, gift

back to the Lord if I can't identify that.

348

: 00:16:02

So how do we begin to recognize the voice

of the enemy versus the voice of God?

349

: 00:16:07

The voice of the Holy Spirit.

350

: 00:16:09

emily_1_05-30-2025_092843:

That's a great question.

351

: 00:16:10

Well, I highly recommend reading

sincerely, stone Heartd, because when

352

: 00:16:16

I wrote it in the way that the devil

speaks to me and speaks to other

353

: 00:16:21

women, oh man, I know so clearly.

354

: 00:16:23

Now, when that voice comes in,

right, and I'm whatever, putting

355

: 00:16:27

the baby to bed at night, and that

voice that's so cutting and so awful

356

: 00:16:31

says like, you're a horrible mother.

357

: 00:16:33

You're a horrible mother.

358

: 00:16:35

You know?

359

: 00:16:35

I get tears in my eyes singing about

it, thinking about just all the

360

: 00:16:37

lies that women believe in, that

cutting voice that follows us all.

361

: 00:16:42

Writing it out, right, and

speaking it in the audio book

362

: 00:16:45

was a whole different thing.

363

: 00:16:46

Speaking as the way the

364

: 00:16:48

mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343: I bet.

365

: 00:16:48

emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: devil

has spoken to women, like saying

366

: 00:16:50

it all out loud was really insane.

367

: 00:16:53

But when I wrote this and.

368

: 00:16:55

You know, the process of that, it's

like, oh, when that voice comes

369

: 00:16:59

in, I'm like, I know that voice.

370

: 00:17:00

It's not the voice of the Lord.

371

: 00:17:02

Because, you know, you might have

seen these graphs online that say

372

: 00:17:05

like, the voice of God is gentle and

loving and kind and good, and the

373

: 00:17:09

voice of the enemy is cutting and it's

pressure filled, and it's, you know,

374

: 00:17:13

it, it makes me feel anxiety, right.

375

: 00:17:17

That that's great.

376

: 00:17:18

Those graphs are great, but until I can

recognize that in my own heart to say.

377

: 00:17:22

This voice that tells me I'm a bad

mother, or this voice that tells me I'm

378

: 00:17:25

a failure, or this voice that I tell

tells me I'm messing up everything.

379

: 00:17:30

It's cutting and it's ugly and it's

awful, and that's never the voice of God.

380

: 00:17:34

So I'm so much better able to

identify in those moments, right?

381

: 00:17:39

When I hear those lies, I'm like, oh,

this is not the voice of my father.

382

: 00:17:44

Get behind me.

383

: 00:17:45

Satan.

384

: 00:17:46

I'm so much more inclined to know,

like, oh, I know who this is.

385

: 00:17:51

Like, it's not even a question anymore.

386

: 00:17:54

After doing this, and that's what I

hope for women, is that as they see how

387

: 00:17:58

cutting and awful conniving and subtle

the voice of the enemy is, when that

388

: 00:18:03

voice comes up, they say, I know the

voice of my father, and this isn't it.

389

: 00:18:06

This isn't it.

390

: 00:18:08

I'm not gonna listen.

391

: 00:18:09

I'm not gonna give into your games.

392

: 00:18:10

I'm not going to bow to the

ways that you're trying to

393

: 00:18:13

steal, kill and destroy me.

394

: 00:18:14

Get outta here.

395

: 00:18:15

And then you proceed with

life and love and joy, and the

396

: 00:18:17

hope that God wants for you.

397

: 00:18:20

It's, you know, and not to make it

sound easier than it is, but is this

398

: 00:18:24

process of like, Lord, help me to

identify this voice so I can live in the

399

: 00:18:28

freedom that you made me for, you know.

400

: 00:18:30

mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343: Yeah, and

I think the word cutting is so precise.

401

: 00:18:34

Like when you said that, I

was like, that's how it feels.

402

: 00:18:37

And I think it does take listening

to conversations like this, reading

403

: 00:18:41

the book, just kind of being faced

with the reality to recognize that.

404

: 00:18:44

'cause sometimes it can be, at least in my

experience, so disguised in my own voice.

405

: 00:18:48

Where it's like this negative

self-talk of you, like, oh,

406

: 00:18:50

you didn't do that very well.

407

: 00:18:51

Oh, you definitely aren't

good enough at this.

408

: 00:18:53

emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: Mm-hmm.

409

: 00:18:54

mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343:

should have tried harder, X, Y, Z.

410

: 00:18:56

You know?

411

: 00:18:56

emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: Yeah.

412

: 00:18:56

mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343:

not being a good wife, you're not

413

: 00:18:58

being a good daughter about all these

414

: 00:18:59

emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: Mm-hmm.

415

: 00:18:59

mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343: And

it sounds like yourself, and it sounds

416

: 00:19:01

like I'm just trying to be better.

417

: 00:19:02

And it's funny because there are

times when, well, two things.

418

: 00:19:07

One, I've come to notice, as you said,

that word cutting, that's what it

419

: 00:19:10

emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: Mm-hmm.

420

: 00:19:11

mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343:

like a pie.

421

: 00:19:12

like a bad piercing.

422

: 00:19:14

emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: Yeah.

423

: 00:19:14

Mm-hmm.

424

: 00:19:15

mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343: That

feels so uncomfortable and that hurt me.

425

: 00:19:18

And then too, I think, a, a gift of

marriage too is as you begin to get

426

: 00:19:23

to know your spouse, they begin to

get to, they begin to know what that

427

: 00:19:28

voice looks like for you as well.

428

: 00:19:29

And so there's been several moments

in the past, I mean, few months even

429

: 00:19:32

where I've been saying things out

loud to Trey and he's been like.

430

: 00:19:35

Stop that is not the voice of God.

431

: 00:19:39

And you know, he has to be firm

sometime and be like, that is not true.

432

: 00:19:42

Like, we are not going to say that again.

433

: 00:19:44

We're not going to believe that.

434

: 00:19:46

And times when I've even asked him,

I'm like, can you just pray for me?

435

: 00:19:48

Because I like that seems true to

436

: 00:19:51

emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: Mm-hmm.

437

: 00:19:51

mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343:

And when he's able to kind of say

438

: 00:19:54

that to me and pray for me in those

moments, that brings me outta that

439

: 00:19:57

even more to recognize that those.

440

: 00:20:00

Words were lies.

441

: 00:20:02

He reminds me of my truth, which

always brings me back to my identity.

442

: 00:20:06

And that's something that you

talk about a lot as well, is how

443

: 00:20:09

as women, we're God's beloved.

444

: 00:20:11

That's our truest identity.

445

: 00:20:14

And I think in the Catholic world,

this term of God's beloved or

446

: 00:20:19

daughter or daughter can be so

light sometimes 'cause we hear it.

447

: 00:20:24

So often it's like, what does

it mean to be a daughter?

448

: 00:20:27

Does it just mean to like wear a

pretty dress and just like, you

449

: 00:20:30

know, like love our femininity?

450

: 00:20:31

But I feel like it's so

much fiercer than that.

451

: 00:20:35

can you share some practical ways that we

can root our identity in that truth every

452

: 00:20:41

single day and be reminded about that

every day, even when we don't feel like

453

: 00:20:44

emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: Yeah, so

the exploration of identity as beloved

454

: 00:20:48

in the book started in the chapter.

455

: 00:20:50

Looking at the keys, I think

it's letter three, and the Lord

456

: 00:20:54

gave me this insane analogy.

457

: 00:20:56

Um, I.

458

: 00:20:57

You know, many of you out there

might have identified with this,

459

: 00:21:01

um, you lose your car keys, right?

460

: 00:21:03

And you're going to an appointment,

you're going somewhere,

461

: 00:21:06

you're going to this thing.

462

: 00:21:07

You gotta get to this party, and

you cannot find your car keys.

463

: 00:21:11

And has this happened to you ever?

464

: 00:21:12

Mari?

465

: 00:21:13

mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343: The,

the day I read that chapter, Emily,

466

: 00:21:16

I ran late because I lost my car keys

and I was like, oh my gosh, Emily.

467

: 00:21:21

It's like you're here.

468

: 00:21:23

emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: Totally.

469

: 00:21:24

So women listening out there, you

are looking for your car keys and

470

: 00:21:27

you're frantic, and you're looking

around everywhere and you're

471

: 00:21:29

looking in your pockets, right?

472

: 00:21:30

As a mom, I'm taking the kids to the park.

473

: 00:21:32

You know, it's winter time,

you have your jackets.

474

: 00:21:34

You're like, oh my gosh,

are they in a pocket?

475

: 00:21:36

Are they in the diaper bag?

476

: 00:21:37

Are they in.

477

: 00:21:38

Wherever they are.

478

: 00:21:39

And you're frantically looking

around everywhere thinking, oh my

479

: 00:21:41

gosh, I'm gonna miss a meeting.

480

: 00:21:42

Oh my gosh, this is, this is horrible.

481

: 00:21:44

This is how the enemy wants us

looking for our, our identity.

482

: 00:21:49

This is how he wants us to be

frantically searching high and

483

: 00:21:54

low in every pocket in everything.

484

: 00:21:57

All of those things being analogies

for where we look for identity in our

485

: 00:22:01

appearances, in our accomplishments,

in, um, you know, the life, the

486

: 00:22:05

life milestones we've achieved.

487

: 00:22:07

Right.

488

: 00:22:08

All of these different places.

489

: 00:22:10

The enemy wants us in this frantic,

frenzied, anxious, stressful search

490

: 00:22:16

for identity, our identity as beloved.

491

: 00:22:19

And I'll spoil it.

492

: 00:22:20

'cause there's a lot of letters

if you choose to read it.

493

: 00:22:23

I say in that letter.

494

: 00:22:25

The letters were in her back

pocket the whole time, right?

495

: 00:22:27

And if you're a person who wears

glasses, you know, you're like

496

: 00:22:30

looking at everywhere for your glasses

497

: 00:22:31

mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343: were

498

: 00:22:31

emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: and

your glasses are on your head and

499

: 00:22:33

you're like, oh my gosh, I'm such

a dumb, dumb all along, or this

500

: 00:22:37

thing that you're looking for.

501

: 00:22:39

It was in the most obvious place.

502

: 00:22:41

We all know that feeling.

503

: 00:22:43

That is our identity as beloved.

504

: 00:22:45

It is in your back pocket.

505

: 00:22:47

I could sob my eyes out thinking

about how much I want women to

506

: 00:22:50

believe this, like you said.

507

: 00:22:52

It can become a light saying

like, oh, I'm a daughter of God.

508

: 00:22:55

Like, you know, like talks we used

to hear when we were teenage girls,

509

: 00:22:58

like, you're a princess, like wave

your W high and all the girls who you

510

: 00:23:01

know who like hate, that's like barf.

511

: 00:23:04

I don't identify with this at all,

and it becomes this cheesy thing,

512

: 00:23:08

but man, it is the least cheesy

thing in history is our belonging

513

: 00:23:16

to the Lord is our belonging in his.

514

: 00:23:18

Family is in the reality that we

are beloved and we don't have to

515

: 00:23:23

look a certain way to earn that.

516

: 00:23:25

We don't have to achieve a

life milestone to earn that.

517

: 00:23:28

We don't have to do all the

right things to, for God to

518

: 00:23:32

say, yes, now you've earned it.

519

: 00:23:34

Now you've done enough.

520

: 00:23:35

Now you've, you've done, you've done well.

521

: 00:23:38

It's not, that's not the

way that it is in our life.

522

: 00:23:41

We've so been conditioned to earn things.

523

: 00:23:44

I talk in the book about

report cards, right?

524

: 00:23:46

And you have to get the right

grades and do the right things.

525

: 00:23:49

The Lord's like you don't

stop looking, stop being

526

: 00:23:52

mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343: Um,

527

: 00:23:53

emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: so

frantic, stop being so frenzied.

528

: 00:23:55

Would you just rest?

529

: 00:23:57

Right?

530

: 00:23:57

The loving voice of the Lord, right?

531

: 00:23:59

That 'cause convicts me sometimes

and says, would you just rest in it?

532

: 00:24:03

Would you just slow down and believe?

533

: 00:24:07

That the keys are here, like I'm here.

534

: 00:24:09

Your belovedness cannot be

changed, cannot be stripped away.

535

: 00:24:13

And so for women really to start their

believing, not in a cheesy way, it's

536

: 00:24:18

it, it's, it's already within me.

537

: 00:24:21

I am already beloved.

538

: 00:24:22

It's not something I'm gonna find.

539

: 00:24:23

It's not something that I'm gonna earn.

540

: 00:24:25

It's something God has given me to

ask the Lord to help you embrace.

541

: 00:24:29

That will change everything.

542

: 00:24:33

At least it did for me.

543

: 00:24:34

I don't know if you can

speak to that yourself.

544

: 00:24:37

mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343:

Oh, absolutely.

545

: 00:24:38

And I think the thing that helps me as I

get older is going back to like a young

546

: 00:24:45

version of myself, a like little, little

mari like baby Mari, because I grow older.

547

: 00:24:53

You know the Lord has, we

talked about gifts earlier.

548

: 00:24:55

Sometimes you recognize like, wow,

look at all the gifts God's given me.

549

: 00:24:58

I can do it myself.

550

: 00:24:59

And you think that like you,

you're, you become self-reliant.

551

: 00:25:02

You're like, I can do so much.

552

: 00:25:03

I can do it myself, and we only go

to God and we really need something.

553

: 00:25:06

But what has really helped me go back to

my daughter, my belovedness, and my need

554

: 00:25:11

for my father, and how my worth comes

from my father, not in what I can do or.

555

: 00:25:16

Or provide or perform going

back to this like baby Mari self

556

: 00:25:22

because she needs her dad so much.

557

: 00:25:25

And the image I have in my brain

is this picture that my mom took of

558

: 00:25:28

me and my dad when I was a newborn.

559

: 00:25:30

It's one of my favorite

photos I have of my childhood.

560

: 00:25:34

My dad is lying in bed and I'm

literally just a few days old, like

561

: 00:25:38

curled up on his chest and he's

kissing my head and I'm just like.

562

: 00:25:42

That's daughter like curled up on

your father's chest knowing you don't

563

: 00:25:47

have anywhere to go, but to be there

and receive he's providing for you.

564

: 00:25:53

The safety, the love, the

providence, like oh, the grace that

565

: 00:25:56

God is always bestowing upon us.

566

: 00:25:58

And he is just saying

like, you just need me.

567

: 00:26:00

You just need to be here with me and

like I am giving you your daughter,

568

: 00:26:05

your worth, your belovedness, and

you don't need to find it anywhere

569

: 00:26:08

emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: Mm-hmm.

570

: 00:26:09

I love that.

571

: 00:26:11

And I think sometimes it can be hard

to believe in that belovedness for

572

: 00:26:15

women whose fathers were awful and

whose fathers, you know, were really

573

: 00:26:19

absent, non-existent, their fathers

who were cutting voices in their lives.

574

: 00:26:24

And to those women who think

like, man, it's so hard for

575

: 00:26:27

me to accept that identity as

beloved because I have no idea.

576

: 00:26:30

What the love of a good father looks like.

577

: 00:26:32

Really simple prayers each and every day.

578

: 00:26:35

Say, Lord, teach me what the

love of a good father looks like.

579

: 00:26:39

Right?

580

: 00:26:39

Show me your love.

581

: 00:26:41

Heal my heart.

582

: 00:26:42

Let me embrace, um, what true fatherhood

was supposed to look like from you Lord.

583

: 00:26:49

And like, ask for that every single day

and let the Lord heal those places in your

584

: 00:26:55

heart if you really struggle to believe.

585

: 00:26:58

That the love of a father

can be good at all.

586

: 00:27:00

He wants to heal that in your heart,

and he wants you, like Mari said,

587

: 00:27:05

like he said, to be, you know, just

curled up in his chest to teach you

588

: 00:27:10

what that feels like and what that

love that you should have received

589

: 00:27:13

throughout your life is like from his

heart in that most, most pointedly

590

: 00:27:19

in that peace and quiet with him.

591

: 00:27:21

There's a quote that I love that

says There is a peace that can be

592

: 00:27:24

found only in listening to the quiet

of God's love for you, and like the

593

: 00:27:29

Lord's healing can come in that place.

594

: 00:27:32

mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343:

I love how that includes the word

595

: 00:27:34

emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: Mm-hmm.

596

: 00:27:35

mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343: us back

597

: 00:27:35

emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: Mm-hmm.

598

: 00:27:36

mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343:

silence that we need to

599

: 00:27:37

emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: Mm-hmm.

600

: 00:27:38

mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343:

Uh, I'm curious, Emily, was there a

601

: 00:27:40

particular lie in the book that you

personally wrestled with as you were

602

: 00:27:44

writing it, that you just felt like,

dang, this is cutting me to the heart.

603

: 00:27:49

How did God walk you through it?

604

: 00:27:51

emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: Yes.

605

: 00:27:52

That's a great question and I

might, um, throw that question

606

: 00:27:55

back to you after this.

607

: 00:27:57

After I say mine, the

heart will, there are so.

608

: 00:28:01

In the beginning, the book was

a self portrait of the ways

609

: 00:28:03

the enemy worked is on me.

610

: 00:28:05

But as I started writing, it became

a portrait of all, it's like a memoir

611

: 00:28:08

of everything I've ever heard women

share with me for the past 14 years.

612

: 00:28:12

The one that is so closely related

to the biggest struggle that

613

: 00:28:16

I have in my life is letter.

614

: 00:28:18

41, it's called the empty theater.

615

: 00:28:21

And in it, I talk about could have,

would've, should have, and how the enemy

616

: 00:28:25

works on me and tries to steal, kill,

and destroy my peace every day by having

617

: 00:28:29

me look at the past and all the ways

I've messed up and all the people I I've

618

: 00:28:33

let down, and all the ways that I wish

things had gone differently or things

619

: 00:28:37

that I wish I had done differently.

620

: 00:28:39

And like that.

621

: 00:28:41

Oh man, I cried so much writing that

letter because the enemy wants me just

622

: 00:28:46

stuck in the past looking in the rear

view mirror of life thinking, man, oh

623

: 00:28:50

man, I wish that had gone differently.

624

: 00:28:51

I wish I made a different choice.

625

: 00:28:52

Whatever it is, just stuck there.

626

: 00:28:56

And how many women can identify with

that of being stuck in the past, right?

627

: 00:29:02

You just can't let go of whatever it is.

628

: 00:29:05

Your boyfriend, your memories,

your choices, whatever, and how

629

: 00:29:09

the enemy just wants us there.

630

: 00:29:11

Could have, would've, should have.

631

: 00:29:11

You could have done this,

you should have done this.

632

: 00:29:14

Things would've been so different.

633

: 00:29:16

Have you had, had you gone this way?

634

: 00:29:17

And I talk about how my life

has kind of felt in this way

635

: 00:29:21

that the enemy works on me.

636

: 00:29:22

Like I'm sitting in an empty theater and

across the screen, right, the movie of my

637

: 00:29:26

life is playing and all of the things that

I regret or wish had gone differently.

638

: 00:29:30

Play all the time.

639

: 00:29:31

And the enemies, they're

like, you're so stupid.

640

: 00:29:33

Like, oh my goodness,

look how you've messed up.

641

: 00:29:35

Look at you.

642

: 00:29:35

Let her down so much.

643

: 00:29:37

You, you didn't do that.

644

: 00:29:38

Like, look, you're such a failure.

645

: 00:29:40

And it destroys me.

646

: 00:29:42

And I think there are kind

of two sides to the coin.

647

: 00:29:44

Women who struggle with living too

much in the past, and then women

648

: 00:29:47

who worry constantly about the

future, the enemy's like, oh ahead.

649

: 00:29:51

There's so many scary things.

650

: 00:29:52

It's all gonna be awful.

651

: 00:29:53

Right?

652

: 00:29:54

And so I think, I really think there are

like two types of people in the world, um,

653

: 00:29:58

who struggle with these different things.

654

: 00:30:00

But for me.

655

: 00:30:01

Man identifying that now when that voice

comes up, like you're so dumb, you should

656

: 00:30:05

have done, you know that differently.

657

: 00:30:07

I just say, get behind me, Satan.

658

: 00:30:08

I ain't focused in on the past.

659

: 00:30:10

I'm looking forward through the windshield

rather than the rear view mirror,

660

: 00:30:13

and it's gonna change everything I.

661

: 00:30:17

On the other side of the coin, what

would you say in the book was, or

662

: 00:30:20

in your life even right now, if you

can share in vulnerability with your

663

: 00:30:24

listeners the lie that you maybe have

believed, um, that was highlighted in

664

: 00:30:28

the book or maybe not, um, a lie that

you struggle or you're wrestling with in

665

: 00:30:32

your life in this season here and now.

666

: 00:30:35

mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343:

Yes, totally.

667

: 00:30:37

I think for me it's just this underlying

lie of like you have to earn, God's love.

668

: 00:30:42

And it's funny because with the formation

I've received throughout my life and

669

: 00:30:45

as a missionary, like my head I know,

oh, I don't have to earn God's love.

670

: 00:30:49

God loves me.

671

: 00:30:50

But then.

672

: 00:30:51

In the depths of my heart and that cutting

voice that comes in somehow, that's always

673

: 00:30:55

how it's wrapped up to be like, oh, you

should have done better because then you

674

: 00:31:00

know, God would've blessed you better.

675

: 00:31:02

And it's kind of this connection between

like the, the better you perform,

676

: 00:31:05

the better blessings God gives you.

677

: 00:31:06

It's almost like he gives you

blessings according to how well you.

678

: 00:31:09

Earned it.

679

: 00:31:10

And that might come from being

the eldest daughter, being a

680

: 00:31:13

perfectionist, being a high achiever.

681

: 00:31:15

You know, it's all like intricately

like the Lord, not the Lord.

682

: 00:31:18

I think the evil one even uses some

strengths that we have to break us down

683

: 00:31:23

and to kind of distort how God approaches

us and views us, and that has, yeah, been

684

: 00:31:29

something that I've been wrestling with.

685

: 00:31:31

Tremendously the past three years

of as we've tried to start a

686

: 00:31:34

family and to have faced struggles

we did not think we would face.

687

: 00:31:40

And coming from, like, my story

with the Lord was like, we were

688

: 00:31:43

always walking hand in hand.

689

: 00:31:44

Like we always had the same plan and

like, you know, that was the college

690

: 00:31:47

we wanted to go to and that's where

we went and that's the man we wanted

691

: 00:31:50

to marry and that's who we married.

692

: 00:31:51

And you know, this is the job we wanted.

693

: 00:31:53

So that's what we got.

694

: 00:31:54

And so it was like we're always

working hand in hand and I'm working

695

: 00:31:57

for the Lord and he's blessing me.

696

: 00:31:59

And then, you know, one day it was like

I was still working for the Lord, but

697

: 00:32:03

then this like one prayer of like wanting

motherhood did not come to fruition

698

: 00:32:08

and continued to not come to fruition.

699

: 00:32:10

And all of a sudden I was like, am does

the Lord not trust me to be a mother?

700

: 00:32:14

Like, am I not doing things good enough?

701

: 00:32:16

You know, like, and I've, and

I've spent my life like serving

702

: 00:32:19

the Lord and like glorifying him.

703

: 00:32:21

So like.

704

: 00:32:21

I don't, I deserve that.

705

: 00:32:23

Like we would be great parents, Lord.

706

: 00:32:26

You know, and it's, it's, it's funny,

I was with my, um, sister-in-law

707

: 00:32:30

at the zoo over Mother's Day.

708

: 00:32:34

we were seeing a ton of families, um,

you know, around with their children.

709

: 00:32:37

And, and sometimes you look at

some that look a little like,

710

: 00:32:41

interesting and you're like, Hmm.

711

: 00:32:43

they're, and they, the Lord gave them

children, you know, like covered in

712

: 00:32:47

tattoos and piercings, head to toe.

713

: 00:32:49

And you just kind of wonder like,

where, what is the history here?

714

: 00:32:52

And like, and, and the Lord deemed

them to be a mother, but not me.

715

: 00:32:57

So it's easy to kind of fall into that.

716

: 00:32:58

For me sometimes that's the lie

and I have to, um, have, yeah,

717

: 00:33:03

that reframing of just like.

718

: 00:33:06

The Lord is not conditional upon anything.

719

: 00:33:08

His love is not conditional upon anything.

720

: 00:33:11

He didn't bring you in into existence

because of how well he thought

721

: 00:33:14

you would glorify him or how well

he thought you would serve him.

722

: 00:33:17

'cause in fact, he knew you were human.

723

: 00:33:19

He knew you would fall.

724

: 00:33:20

And so if he thought you were going,

like he didn't bring you in 'cause

725

: 00:33:23

he thought you were gonna be perfect.

726

: 00:33:24

And so just always going back to

the Lord's love is unconditional.

727

: 00:33:29

The Lord's love is always there and you

don't have to do anything to earn it.

728

: 00:33:33

emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: Yeah.

729

: 00:33:34

I so appreciate your vulnerability

about this, your openness about this,

730

: 00:33:39

because I think that there's a lot

of women, you know, and I know that

731

: 00:33:42

you connect with them so beautifully,

silently, struggling with that or with

732

: 00:33:46

unanswered prayers for the women out

there who wanna get married so badly

733

: 00:33:50

and they think, man, what did I miss?

734

: 00:33:52

What did I do wrong?

735

: 00:33:53

Lord, I thought you loved me.

736

: 00:33:55

When the Lord really, and we have

to go back to that very difficult.

737

: 00:34:00

To embrace sometimes reality

that the Lord's love is not, it's

738

: 00:34:04

in what he gives, but it is not

based on what he gives, right?

739

: 00:34:08

Like when you look, um, at the Prodigal

son and he comes home, right in life

740

: 00:34:14

and all the things that he went and

did and all that stuff, and I'm not

741

: 00:34:17

comparing anybody who has desires

of their heart to the prodigal son.

742

: 00:34:20

Understand what I'm saying?

743

: 00:34:21

His desire, right, in all things was for.

744

: 00:34:25

The father, right?

745

: 00:34:26

He wanted to just come back and be with

the Father, and it's this beautiful

746

: 00:34:30

thing that the Lord has shown me right

throughout the time of the prayers

747

: 00:34:34

that I have prayed or whatever it is.

748

: 00:34:37

That question of like, are you

running back home to me or are

749

: 00:34:40

you just running to me in general?

750

: 00:34:42

Maybe not as a pral son after being

with the pigs, but just running to me

751

: 00:34:45

in general and as you run to me, are you

looking at me or are you looking over

752

: 00:34:51

my shoulder at what you want me to give

you at what you hope is gonna be there?

753

: 00:34:55

If you love me fully, if you give

of your heart fully, you know

754

: 00:34:59

I hear like the, the lie that

drives me crazy for so many women.

755

: 00:35:03

Like once you give your heart

to the Lord fully, that's when

756

: 00:35:05

he'll bring the right man for you.

757

: 00:35:07

Like that's when you'll meet him.

758

: 00:35:08

And I'm like, it's not true.

759

: 00:35:11

We want the Lord, love the Lord with

all our heart, mind, soul, and strength.

760

: 00:35:15

It is not this, this, this bar that

you meet and then the Lord's like,

761

: 00:35:19

yes, now I'm gonna send you this man.

762

: 00:35:23

Now I will send you a child.

763

: 00:35:25

Now I will do whatever it might be.

764

: 00:35:27

These things are so hard to wrestle

with and I love your openness to sharing

765

: 00:35:33

about, you know, just your journey

and loving the Lord and having this.

766

: 00:35:37

Deep desire in your heart and

continuing to just glorify the Lord

767

: 00:35:41

where he has you in the here and now.

768

: 00:35:43

It's such a beautiful testament for women.

769

: 00:35:46

Your light and your love, and your faith.

770

: 00:35:48

So thank you for sharing that, even in the

midst of this struggle that you're facing

771

: 00:35:52

in your life with your husband right now.

772

: 00:35:54

Yeah.

773

: 00:35:55

mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343: totally.

774

: 00:35:55

And I mean, something you said is

775

: 00:35:57

emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: What I.

776

: 00:35:57

mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343:

back to a lot is like, do I.

777

: 00:35:59

love the Lord because of what he

gives or because of who He's, and

778

: 00:36:04

it's been refining for me, and I

mean, I know that anybody who's gone

779

: 00:36:07

through deep, deep suffering, while

it's a mystery and confusing many

780

: 00:36:13

times, if the Lord allows you to see.

781

: 00:36:18

Purpose in it.

782

: 00:36:19

You almost are grateful for

783

: 00:36:21

emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: Uh.

784

: 00:36:21

mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343: You

almost are grateful for it because

785

: 00:36:23

you realize, I mean, I've realized

like my relationship with God would

786

: 00:36:26

not be what it is today, and I would

not have grown the ways that I have

787

: 00:36:30

if I had not faced this challenge.

788

: 00:36:33

Um, and so my trust is deepened and it is

beautiful and it's still hard, you know,

789

: 00:36:37

emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: Yeah.

790

: 00:36:37

mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343: hard.

791

: 00:36:37

It still requires daily yes to

the Lord, daily reminders that

792

: 00:36:41

his love is unconditional and

that I don't have to earn it.

793

: 00:36:44

Um.

794

: 00:36:45

But Yeah.

795

: 00:36:46

emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: Yeah.

796

: 00:36:46

mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343: you

for, for recognizing that vulnerability.

797

: 00:36:50

emily_1_05-30-2025_092843:

It's so powerful.

798

: 00:36:51

mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343: we wrap

up, Emily, if your readers would walk

799

: 00:36:54

away with one truth from this book, what

would it be That you want them to know?

800

: 00:37:00

emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: That God

made you to live in freedom and that's

801

: 00:37:03

another thing that beco can become light.

802

: 00:37:05

Like you could put that on a tote bag.

803

: 00:37:06

God made you for freedom, but God like

actually deeply wants you so surrendered

804

: 00:37:14

in the every day so surrendered to where

he's taking you, what he's doing, how,

805

: 00:37:19

how he's moving, how he's loving, so

that you can like live in this freedom.

806

: 00:37:25

From worry, from fear,

from this discouragement.

807

: 00:37:29

It's like a burden on your back,

like you're carrying around

808

: 00:37:32

a backpack full of bricks and

trying to get through every day.

809

: 00:37:35

No wonder you're exhausted.

810

: 00:37:37

No wonder you're, you

know, just so broken down.

811

: 00:37:40

The Lord wants to like, take every

brick out of the, outta your back.

812

: 00:37:44

You're a failure.

813

: 00:37:45

You're all, all the, all these lies

that you believe day in and day out.

814

: 00:37:48

He wants to take 'em all

off your back so you can.

815

: 00:37:51

Feel free to run and like in the

least cheesy way, spend your life

816

: 00:37:56

like running the race, right?

817

: 00:37:58

That St.

818

: 00:37:59

Paul talks about running the race set

before you in freedom so that you can

819

: 00:38:03

inspire other women to do the same.

820

: 00:38:05

To be like, man, she's so free.

821

: 00:38:07

She's so at rest, she's so at peace.

822

: 00:38:09

I wanna be just like that.

823

: 00:38:10

Like you talked about in the

beginning of our time here together,

824

: 00:38:13

it's a ripple effect that the

enemy doesn't want women to have.

825

: 00:38:15

So when women live in freedom,

they give other women permission

826

: 00:38:19

to do the same and it's.

827

: 00:38:20

So powerful.

828

: 00:38:22

God made you to be free.

829

: 00:38:24

That stone rolled away.

830

: 00:38:26

Jesus came out and you were free.

831

: 00:38:28

And boy, oh boy, if we could live

more like that's true every day the

832

: 00:38:32

world would be such a different place.

833

: 00:38:35

mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343: Mm.

834

: 00:38:35

Amen.

835

: 00:38:36

I mean, I know that in my own life

that when I finally like lived in

836

: 00:38:40

the Lord's way, and way I described

finding this freedom was that

837

: 00:38:45

he, he allowed me to experience

the most Maori version of myself.

838

: 00:38:49

Like for the first time I was like, I.

839

: 00:38:52

Know exactly who I am and I feel so

free to be fully myself in every way.

840

: 00:38:58

Um, so that is something I

want for all women as well.

841

: 00:39:01

What a beautiful message.

842

: 00:39:02

Thank you.

843

: 00:39:03

for spending time with us this morning

and for writing this book that we

844

: 00:39:06

know are gonna bless so many people.

845

: 00:39:08

emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: Thank you.

846

: 00:39:08

It's such a gift.

847

: 00:39:09

Yeah.

848

: 00:39:09

If your readers want to walk alongside

me in the audio book, like I said,

849

: 00:39:13

I read the whole thing out loud.

850

: 00:39:14

If you're an audio.

851

: 00:39:14

Audiobook listener, you can do that.

852

: 00:39:16

And then there's a group discussion guide.

853

: 00:39:17

I wanna bring women together with this

so we can like talk about these things.

854

: 00:39:21

Women can talk about the lies

they specifically believe.

855

: 00:39:23

So that group discussion guide

you can find on my website,

856

: 00:39:26

Emily Wilson ministries.com.

857

: 00:39:27

It's totally free and it

goes alongside the books so.

858

: 00:39:30

If you're doing a book study or a book

club or you just wanna read with your

859

: 00:39:32

best friend, just, you know, get the

book, use those questions, and oh my

860

: 00:39:36

gosh, you're gonna be, I hear from

women, they're like, um, we talked

861

: 00:39:39

until three o'clock in the morning.

862

: 00:39:41

I'm like, amazing.

863

: 00:39:42

All the better.

864

: 00:39:42

Life is short.

865

: 00:39:43

Let's chat about real stuff, you know?

866

: 00:39:46

mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343:

That is so good.

867

: 00:39:47

Okay.

868

: 00:39:47

So they can find the book in the

discussion guide on your website.

869

: 00:39:50

emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: Yes, you can

find the book on Amazon, Barnes and Noble.

870

: 00:39:52

Wherever books are sold, you can get

Sincerely Stone Heartd on Amazon.

871

: 00:39:55

You'll have the audio book.

872

: 00:39:57

Um, and then yes, the discussion

guide is free on my website,

873

: 00:40:00

Emily Wilson ministries.com.

874

: 00:40:03

mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343: We'll

make sure to link that in the show

875

: 00:40:04

emily_1_05-30-2025_092843: Thank you.

876

: 00:40:05

mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343:

if they wanna hear more from you.

877

: 00:40:06

where can they find you?

878

: 00:40:08

emily_1_05-30-2025_092843:

Yeah, I have a YouTube channel.

879

: 00:40:09

You can also find me on Instagram

sharing about life and its obstacles at

880

: 00:40:13

MWI Ls S, and hopefully in your nearest

church, if you ever run into me say hi.

881

: 00:40:19

I love, love.

882

: 00:40:20

My ministry is for women.

883

: 00:40:21

So many women come to me and they're

like, I'm sorry if I'm bothering you.

884

: 00:40:23

I'm like, you are not bothering me.

885

: 00:40:24

I do this for you.

886

: 00:40:26

My heart is horrible.

887

: 00:40:27

Yes.

888

: 00:40:28

I love, love, love meeting you.

889

: 00:40:30

So if you ever see me out

and about, I would love to

890

: 00:40:32

give you a hug and say hello.

891

: 00:40:34

Thank you, Mari, for having

me on, for sharing your heart

892

: 00:40:37

today in our discussion.

893

: 00:40:38

I'm so grateful for everything that

you're doing for women and for the church.

894

: 00:40:42

mari-wagner_2_05-30-2025_103343:

Oh, thanks.

895

: 00:40:42

Um, awesome.

896

: 00:40:44

Well, we'll catch you guys next Wednesday.

897

: 00:40:46

Bye.